Abortion in NI should be legalised? Watch

gsmyth
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Abortion continues not to be allowed in NI. I personally believe that this is the right thing to do as the largest party is a Pro-Life party.

What are your thoughts in this?

Any input is appreciated!
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AzureCeleste
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So what is morally right is based upon what most people what?
Really? Think back to the past when most people had and wanted slaves- that didn't make it right and now we look back and can't believe that was actually a thing
Last edited by AzureCeleste; 1 week ago
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by gsmyth)
Abortion continues not to be allowed in NI. I personally believe that this is the right thing to do as the largest party is a Pro-Life party.

What are your thoughts in this?

Any input is appreciated!
People should choose what they want to do with their lives but they should not become a burden on the state. I don't think those who are anti-abortion should indirectly pay for abortion through their taxes.

I am against abortion. I think it should be allowed but those who want it should have to pay for it. We were not there when you were getting pregnant, why should we be there when you want to kill the child?

Just my view.
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Lagia
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Personally as I'm pro-choice i think that abortion should be legal, but only up to about 8-weeks (when the embryo can feel pain) unless extreme circumstances like a pregnant child didn't know or a serious risk to the mother's life
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Lagia
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I get what you are saying here, however there is the issue of if someone is too poor to pay for an abortion. They then also wouldn't have the money to support the child once born and it would have a terrible quality of life.
And yeah I know there are orphanages but those are over crowded as it and with not enough money themselves to give the kids a fair chance at life


(Original post by Wired_1800)
People should choose what they want to do with their lives but they should not become a burden on the state. I don't think those who are anti-abortion should indirectly pay for abortion through their taxes.

I am against abortion. I think it should be allowed but those who want it should have to pay for it. We were not there when you were getting pregnant, why should we be there when you want to kill the child?

Just my view.
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AzureCeleste
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(Original post by Lagia)
Personally as I'm pro-choice i think that abortion should be legal, but only up to about 8-weeks (when the embryo can feel pain) unless extreme circumstances like a pregnant child didn't know or a serious risk to the mother's life
They embryo feels pain at 24 weeks (roughly) not 8
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Sharmarko
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(Original post by AzureCeleste)
They embryo feels pain at 24 weeks (roughly) not 8
Even if that was true, are you basing your decision of whether or not murder is justified on the fact that "it probably can't feel it anyway"?


Abortion should not be a plan-B (pun intended.) It shouldn't even be a plan C or D or E. Taking an abortion should be the very last thing a couple thinks of going through,
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Lagia
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Thanks, I couldn't remember when it was. Probably something I should revise as I have the RS exam with that stuff on in about a week
(Original post by AzureCeleste)
They embryo feels pain at 24 weeks (roughly) not 8
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AzureCeleste
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(Original post by Sharmarko)
Even if that was true, are you basing your decision of whether or not murder is justified on the fact that "it probably can't feel it anyway"?


Abortion should not be a plan-B (pun intended.) It shouldn't even be a plan C or D or E. Taking an abortion should be the very last thing a couple thinks of going through,
Was purely pointing out a factual error.
I did an ethical essay on abortion and from an ethical standpoint being for abortion outweighed the reasons for being against it- for both the benefit of the mother and the child
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Lagia
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The embryo doesn't even have brain function until 6 weeks. It's just a lump of cells. It is a morally wrong to abort before 6 weeks as it is to ejaculate while not trying to get someone pregnant.
Just because it can become life doesn't mean it is alive
(Original post by Sharmarko)
Even if that was true, are you basing your decision of whether or not murder is justified on the fact that "it probably can't feel it anyway"?


Abortion should not be a plan-B (pun intended.) It shouldn't even be a plan C or D or E. Taking an abortion should be the very last thing a couple thinks of going through,
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Sharmarko
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(Original post by Lagia)
The embryo doesn't even have brain function until 6 weeks. It's just a lump of cells. It is a morally wrong to abort before 6 weeks as it is to ejaculate while not trying to get someone pregnant.
Just because it can become life doesn't mean it is alive
That's what interests me so much, and why I think people are so split on the issue.


The embryo is most definitely alive, it consists of cells - this was never up for debate.

What I wonder is at what point is it not okay to kill it? The other poster mentioned feeling pain, and now you mention brain function. What attributes does something require for it to now suddenly be immoral to kill?
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Lagia)
I get what you are saying here, however there is the issue of if someone is too poor to pay for an abortion. They then also wouldn't have the money to support the child once born and it would have a terrible quality of life.
And yeah I know there are orphanages but those are over crowded as it and with not enough money themselves to give the kids a fair chance at life
I think the point that you prob missed is that those people should not be having sex in the first place. Without sex, babies don't mysteriously appear in your womb. People have to cut their coats according to their size. We live in a society where people are quick to push responsibility away from themselves.
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Lagia
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Yeah, I admit that was a bad choice of words.
What I think is that if something has enough function to have sentience then it shouldn't be killed unless its life would be terrible to the point it's not worth living. So i would say abortions ideally before 6 weeks and if there is an extreme case then I'd just hope its before it can feel the pain at 24 weeks
(Original post by Sharmarko)
That's what interests me so much, and why I think people are so split on the issue.


The embryo is most definitely alive, it consists of cells - this was never up for debate.

What I wonder is at what point is it not okay to kill it? The other poster mentioned feeling pain, and now you mention brain function. What attributes does something require for it to now suddenly be immoral to kill?
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Sharmarko
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(Original post by AzureCeleste)
Was purely pointing out a factual error.
I did an ethical essay on abortion and from an ethical standpoint being for abortion outweighed the reasons for being against it- for both the benefit of the mother and the child

How does an abortion benefit the one being aborted? I assume it would it be issues regarding bringing beings into life with genetic illnesses or conditions. But this is a slippery slope, as it suggests that people who have genetic imperfections (something subjective) are undesirable.
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Lagia
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If the people had willing sex without taking the precautions like contraception then yes they should pay. However what if contraception fail? Condoms can break and while they aren't the only method they are the easiest to get a hold of.
(Original post by Wired_1800)
I think the point that you prob missed is that those people should not be having sex in the first place. Without sex, babies don't mysteriously appear in your womb. People have to cut their coats according to their size. We live in a society where people are quick to push responsibility away from themselves.
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AzureCeleste
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(Original post by Sharmarko)
How does an abortion benefit the one being aborted? I assume it would it be issues regarding bringing beings into life with genetic illnesses or conditions. But this is a slippery slope, as it suggests that people who have genetic imperfections (something subjective) are undesirable.
- Financial situation of the family: family can't afford it, poorer quality of life for child
- Emotional well being of mother: postpartum depression is common, if she doesn't want the child then that won't help and so as such child may not be taken care for properly or to the full extent that they could be cared for. Child may not get the love and attention they deserve
-Mother doesn't want child- then up for adoption: this isn't exactly great for the child, may not get adopted, may end up being fostered by a number of people and have no permanent home
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Sharmarko
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(Original post by Lagia)
Yeah, I admit that was a bad choice of words.
What I think is that if something has enough function to have sentience then it shouldn't be killed unless its life would be terrible to the point it's not worth living. So i would say abortions ideally before 6 weeks and if there is an extreme case then I'd just hope its before it can feel the pain at 24 weeks

Your wording is fine, it makes sense practically - it's not nice to be hurt, so morally it's not good to inflict hurt onto others.


However, if we use sentience as the ruling for abortion, then it's still a grey area. What if you were to go to sleep tonight, and never wake up? You are in a coma, and no longer have the function to perceive or feel anything. Since you have lost the ability of sentience, is it now in my moral right to freely kill you?

My argument is that there is no moral cut-off point for abortion - any time period you pick, where the fetus now "has a heartbeat" or "can feel pain now" or "has this arbitrary number of neuron cells" is silly and flawed. My stance is abortion is immoral, it doesn't matter when it happens.


I'm not pro-choice, but I'm not pro-life either. I'm just anti-abortion. Abortions shouldn't be handed out like free sweets on Halloween.







(Original post by Lagia)
If the people had willing sex without taking the precautions like contraception then yes they should pay. However what if contraception fail? Condoms can break and while they aren't the only method they are the easiest to get a hold of.
Then they should be well aware that by using contraception, it's never been marketed as 100% effective. They have not been lied to or mislead.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Lagia)
If the people had willing sex without taking the precautions like contraception then yes they should pay. However what if contraception fail? Condoms can break and while they aren't the only method they are the easiest to get a hold of.
Again, no sex >>>> than the best contraception out there. I think you are trying hard to remove the responsibility from individuals.

If a woman wants to have sex and she thinks hard about it, then she makes a more informed decision.
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Lagia
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Personally, if I was in a coma with very little chance of me ever waking up again then I rather be euthanized (even though I don't believe in an after life) as the resources being used to keep me alive could be used for someone else who has a better chance. I get what you're saying though and euthanasia should certainly be case by case
(Original post by Sharmarko)
Your wording is fine, it makes sense practically - it's not nice to be hurt, so morally it's not good to inflict hurt onto others.


However, if we use sentience as the ruling for abortion, then it's still a grey area. What if you were to go to sleep tonight, and never wake up? You are in a coma, and no longer have the function to perceive or feel anything. Since you have lost the ability of sentience, is it now in my moral right to freely kill you?










Then they should be well aware that by using contraception, it's never been marketed as 100% effective. They have not been lied to or mislead.
But sex is something that all teenagers will want to do and it shouldn't be held up as something purely for making a child. No matter what it's marketed as people will always take that risk to have sex and so until guarenteed contraception that is readily available without lasting effects I feel abortion is the best choice
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Good bloke
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(Original post by AzureCeleste)
So what is morally right is based upon what most people what?
Really? Think back to the past when most people had and wanted slaves- that didn't make it right and now we look back and can't believe that was actually a thing
Morality is based on what society thinks about an issue at the time. Hundreds, and even thousands, of years ago slavery was accepted as morally OK (the Abrahamic religions all condone and regulate it) and you cannot judge what people thought then by the standards of today. Most people did not own slaves, by the way.
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