When it comes to race, Britain is one of the best

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AngeryPenguin
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Despite the image Brexit may be portraying, Britons continue to have some of the most progressive views regarding race and immigration in the world.

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And attitudes have improved since the refugee crisis, while they have declined in much of continental Europe

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We are one of the most likely to admit that immigrants do not cause crime

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or terrorism

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And one of the least likely to support deportations

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https://www.pewglobal.org/2019/03/14...than-a-burden/

Britons are, along with Spanish, the least likely to want to decrease immigration

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https://www.pewglobal.org/2019/03/19...-its-citizens/

Britons are the Europeans most likely to agree that diversity is our strength.

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Brexit may be a disasterous affair, but it is not a sign of a nation whipped into a racist frenzy.
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Samsam2019
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Thanks, these are good pieces of information!
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Obolinda
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Interesting
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mnot
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
Despite the image Brexit may be portraying, Britons continue to have some of the most progressive views regarding race and immigration in the world.

Image

And attitudes have improved since the refugee crisis, while they have declined in much of continental Europe

Image

We are one of the most likely to admit that immigrants do not cause crime

Image

or terrorism

Image

And one of the least likely to support deportations

Image

https://www.pewglobal.org/2019/03/14...than-a-burden/

Brexit may be a disasterous affair, but it is not a sign of a nation whipped into a racist frenzy.
I think the Uk is one of the best, I think the media deliberately confuse race & immigrants, with macro economic issues which can be related to immigration.

This has lead to the divisive identity politics you often see on BBC/Sky etc. the reality is the media wants it tho as it brings in viewers. But generally speaking people in the UK are progressive on race and immigrants.
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AperfectBalance
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'best' hmm
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NotNotBatman
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Are immigrants included in the sample?
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by NotNotBatman)
Are immigrants included in the sample?
Of course. In all countries.

I'm not sure there is an international study specifically on whites' attitudes to race and immigration.

Judging by studies in the US and South Africa, whites and asians are the least progressive races.

South Africa, the US, Israel have the lowest proportion of whites and asians, so would probably see the most significant changes to their results.

The UK, France and Germany have lower levels, would also see significant changes but not as much. Most other results wouldn't change much.

It would still probably show the UK as one of the best, but would favour Japan and Sweden more, for instance.
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Wōden
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(Original post by mnot)
I think the Uk is one of the best, I think the media deliberately confuse race & immigrants, with macro economic issues which can be related to immigration.

This has lead to the divisive identity politics you often see on BBC/Sky etc. the reality is the media wants it tho as it brings in viewers. But generally speaking people in the UK are progressive on race and immigrants.
And yet, white flight is a noted phenomenon in every British town and city that has recieved high levels of non-white immigration. Nearly 700,000 White British and Irish left Greater London between 2001 and 2011. Within Greater London you can look at the demographic heatmaps and see stark divides forming along ethnic lines (something which I really fear is going to come back to bite us in the future), and a definite trend of whites moving away from the increasingly 'dark' inner city to the whiter suburbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...ndon#Ethnicity

And it's not just London, there are demographic heatmaps of many other British cities on Wikipedia, which show exactly the same ethnic divisions. It's an interesting form of 'progressiveness' we have going in this country. "We're happy for immigrants to come here and to reap the economic benefits of their labour, but we don't want to live near them!"
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username4263278
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I don't think Western Europe ever had a severe problem with immigration, I believe the main issue was economic migrants and issues like 'country shopping' which made European people angry
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Wōden
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(Original post by schoolsboring)
I don't think Western Europe ever had a severe problem with immigration, I believe the main issue was economic migrants and issues like 'country shopping' which made European people angry
The vast majority of immigrants legal or otherwise, are 'economic' and they always have been. They don't come here because they desperately want to partake in our culture and customs, they come simply because we have a better standard of living (and a very generous welfare state) than they could hope for in their homelands. That's not to say that many don't develop a deeper connection once they are here, but it's naive to think that economics don't play a very significant role in their motivations to emigrate.
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username4263278
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(Original post by Wōden)
The vast majority of immigrants legal or otherwise, are 'economic' and they always have been. They don't come here because they desperately want to partake in our culture and customs, they come simply because we have a better standard of living (and a very generous welfare state) than they could hope for in their homelands. That's not to say that many don't develop a deeper connection once they are here, but it's naive to think that economics don't play a very significant role in their motivations to emigrate.
I definitely agree with you about culture and motivation to move but most 'immigrants' were from war-torn countries like Syria and Eritrea. Economic migrants are from Sub-Saharan Africa like Nigeria and Ghana and central Asia looking for a better quality of life. Everyone agreed in Europe Syria refugees needed help but were annoyed and wanted to stop migration/immigration the as mainly all migrants arrived in safe European countries but then proceeded to move to different more wealthy countries before people could regulate it. I believe that more so was the issue with these than the actual people in need. But I still agree they wanted a better quality of life and not to partake in European culture.
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Avogadrocado
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1 word - Colonisation
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Avogadrocado)
1 word - Colonisation
2 words - so what?

This thread is talking about the UK now. Are we still engaged in colonialism now? can you point me to our colonies and vast exploitation of others?

Or are you blaming the current generation, who are by all measures - as the OP showed - one of the least racist in the world, for the sins of their ancestors.

If you are doing that, then please tell me what country your ancestors are form (if not the UK) so that I can go back through your countries history and blame you for the misdeeds of your distant long dead relatives.

Have a fact - All empires before the UK engaged in slavery including all islamic empires, the roman empire, greek empires, indian empires, chinese empires, mongol empires, the imperial Japanese empire, even native American tribal empires and south american empires.... the British empire was the first* empire in human history to end it.

(*technically Denmark was first, but they weren't really an empire).
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fallen_acorns
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As for the actual thread, its good news.. obviously we can still do better, but it shows how far we have come.

It shows what I have been saying on here for a while, that our attitude towards race relations in the UK shouldn't be doom/gloom.. and it shouldn't be as negative as what we hear from a lot of race-campaigners.. All the talk that we are a systemically, irreversiably racist nation to our core, have been and always will be. etc. etc.

We should be happy and proud with all the progress we have made, and simulatanously acknowledge how amazingly as a culture we have done, whilst also acknowledging that we still have quite a way to go.

Rather then fostering an atmostphere where people genuinly believe that race-relations are at an all-time low.. hate crime is at an all time high, and people have it worse then ever! its *******s, we have more to do.. but we are doing great, on a great path.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Ostne)
So strong that we shall have to live in Urban multicultural areas with expensive housing, stagnant wages and also live near lots of crime. Not a fan of it myself. Strong for the capitalists and rich and leftists, very useful to them. Not so much your average person.
The only progress made is eradicate the nation state.
Not to mention feeling no connection towards the country as a whole.
Nor I. Even leaving aside issues of cultural compatibilty and social cohesion, do we really need to cram more people into our already overcrowded little nation? Environmentalism is the hot topic right now, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge that the mass migration of people into the most decadent and wasteful societies in human history, might not be the most ecologically sound of policies...

And while we are on the subject of population, I live in a certain county right next to London, and I have seen it's population explode over my lifetime, fueled in large part by both immigration and white flight from London, and the additional population density has not been a positive on the quality of life. It means I now can't afford to buy any homes locally. Rent is more expensive, council tax is more expensive, every type of insurance I have to purchase is more expensive. It means I get stuck in traffic everyday and it's getting noticeably worse each year. It means more litter everywhere. More pollution. More crime. More noise. More godawful modern housing estates ripping the soul out of all the old rural towns and villages. More destruction of the countryside and environment (being a lifelong lover of nature and having worked in conservationism, I have witnessed with my own eyes the local biodiversity of flora and fauna decline very rapidly, it is heartbreaking and frankly terrifying. No wonder though, as there are increasingly fewer natural habitats left across vast swathes of the county. Every scrap of spare land is either intensively farmed or gets concreted over). Overpopulation sucks, I hate it and I really don't care one ****ing jot anymore for the supposed economic benefits of it. The neoliberal doctrine of economic growth for the sake of growth, is the ideology of cancer and it needs to die. I'd happily sacrifice a significant chunk of the GDP and live a simpler life in return for peace and quite, some elbow room and a landscape where nature thrives and isn't on the brink of ecological collapse.
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TheMcSame
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Flawed study if you ask me. Just a few things that come to mind:

1- In recent years people have been blasted on social media, or by mainstream media, or both, for certain views. Some justified, some questionable at best, and some that were grasping at straws (The recent Danny Baker tweet for example). These could have easily pushed people to say the 'right' thing as opposed to their actual views. Not to say this would massively change the numbers but it's something to keep in mind.

2- It's a rather binary set of answers. You're getting people to summarise a large group of people based on two answers when in reality, it really depends on the individuals who are immigrants. Since the figures don't add to 100% and there is no third answer, I can only assume there was a third option of "prefer not to say", which somewhat ties into the first point and is essentially an implied 'wrong' answer

3- Similarly to the point above, it depends on the area. Some areas might have higher concentrations of immigrants who are seen as a burden, populating job centres, little effort to try and integrate, lots of foreigners working in out-of-the-public-eye minimum wage jobs (Where I believe a lot of these views stem from) whereas others may have more immigrants working higher paying jobs (I.E a GP) or have a smaller population of immigrants.

4- Were they explained what was meant by immigrant? Many people wrongly associate refugees which immigrants which could sway the stats (mainly in the favour of a burden I believe).

5- Some stats contradict each other. Look at the stats regarding crime then terrorism.

Crime: More blame/no more blame
Terrorism: Increase terrorism/Do not

Canada Crime: 17/80
Canada Terrorism: 35/61
Difference: +18/-19

US Crime: 19/77
US Terrorism: 39/56
Difference: +20/-21

AUS Crime: 29/67
AUS Terrorism: 48/49
Difference: +19/-18

UK Crime: 22/74
UK Terrorism: 43/50
Difference: +21/-24

Russia Crime: 44/34
Russia Terrorism: 59/21
Difference: +15/-13

18 Country Median Crime: 37/50
18 Country Median Terrorism: 50/45
Difference: +13/-5

No more to blame for crime but they yield a larger terrorist threat? Makes perfect sense...
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Shibu the Doge
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What’s up with Greece lol🤦🏽*♂️
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Shibu the Doge
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I genuinely want to know
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by Revision Boiii)
What’s up with Greece lol🤦🏽*♂️
The refugee crisis hit them hard. Around a million refugees passed through Greece in a year at its peak, a country of 4 million and still reeling from a decade of financial crisis and austerity.


(Original post by TheMcSame)
Flawed study if you ask me. Just a few things that come to mind:

1- In recent years people have been blasted on social media, or by mainstream media, or both, for certain views. Some justified, some questionable at best, and some that were grasping at straws (The recent Danny Baker tweet for example). These could have easily pushed people to say the 'right' thing as opposed to their actual views. Not to say this would massively change the numbers but it's something to keep in mind.

2- It's a rather binary set of answers. You're getting people to summarise a large group of people based on two answers when in reality, it really depends on the individuals who are immigrants. Since the figures don't add to 100% and there is no third answer, I can only assume there was a third option of "prefer not to say", which somewhat ties into the first point and is essentially an implied 'wrong' answer

3- Similarly to the point above, it depends on the area. Some areas might have higher concentrations of immigrants who are seen as a burden, populating job centres, little effort to try and integrate, lots of foreigners working in out-of-the-public-eye minimum wage jobs (Where I believe a lot of these views stem from) whereas others may have more immigrants working higher paying jobs (I.E a GP) or have a smaller population of immigrants.

4- Were they explained what was meant by immigrant? Many people wrongly associate refugees which immigrants which could sway the stats (mainly in the favour of a burden I believe).

5- Some stats contradict each other. Look at the stats regarding crime then terrorism.

No more to blame for crime but they yield a larger terrorist threat? Makes perfect sense...
1. Good point. These surveys are by phone or face-to-face.

3. The survey is designed to be representative of each country, not be area-specific.

5. There's no contradiction. Terrorism happens at a negligible rate compared to crime itself. Even the number of perpetrators just at 2015 New Year's Eve just in Cologne far outnumbered the number of terrorists in all of Germany for the entire year.
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AngeryPenguin
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(Original post by Wōden)
And while we are on the subject of population, I live in a certain county right next to London, and I have seen it's population explode over my lifetime, fueled in large part by both immigration and white flight from London, and the additional population density has not been a positive on the quality of life. It means I now can't afford to buy any homes locally. Rent is more expensive, council tax is more expensive, every type of insurance I have to purchase is more expensive. It means I get stuck in traffic everyday and it's getting noticeably worse each year. It means more litter everywhere. More pollution. More crime. More noise. More godawful modern housing estates ripping the soul out of all the old rural towns and villages. More destruction of the countryside and environment (being a lifelong lover of nature and having worked in conservationism, I have witnessed with my own eyes the local biodiversity of flora and fauna decline very rapidly, it is heartbreaking and frankly terrifying. No wonder though, as there are increasingly fewer natural habitats left across vast swathes of the county. Every scrap of spare land is either intensively farmed or gets concreted over). Overpopulation sucks, I hate it and I really don't care one ****ing jot anymore for the supposed economic benefits of it. The neoliberal doctrine of economic growth for the sake of growth, is the ideology of cancer and it needs to die. I'd happily sacrifice a significant chunk of the GDP and live a simpler life in return for peace and quite, some elbow room and a landscape where nature thrives and isn't on the brink of ecological collapse.
Britain's population has expanded far more rapidly in the past - nearly doubling every 50 years from 1800 to 1950, the peak of Britain's prosperity relative to the rest of the world - without the infrastructure being so strained.

There is no issue with overpopulation in the UK, but overregulation causing undersupply, empty houses hoarded as investments, and single person households caused both by ageing and turning away from the nuclear family.
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