What do you think of the Brexit Party? Watch

ColinDent
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#21
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#21
(Original post by SHallowvale)
What I expect from them hasn't got anything to do with me being a remainer. Even if I were a leaver I would want to know why they are running and what they will do (or won't do) in the European Parliament. They would actually get my vote, even as a remainer, if they pledged to abstain from European politics in respect of the referendum result and in protest of our own government's incompetence over agreeing to a deal.


This is student forum with a very small outreach, at least as far as politics is concerned. An insult here or there isn't going to make a huge difference to anything, really. I do agree though, in wider public forums/debates/spaces insults should not be thrown, regardless of their severity.
Therein lies the problem, it is exactly what has been happening ever since the morning after the referendum.
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SHallowvale
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#22
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#22
(Original post by z-hog)
Were you a Leaver and you'd have no trouble understanding why they are running, I'm neither Leave or Remain and I don't need any help with it! I'm voting Brexit for the sake of Democracy (never mind, it's a long story...).
If they are running to simply send a message that the public want Brexit then they are wasting their time (and, in particular, public money). We already know the public want Brexit and we have been trying to come up with some plan for the last 3 years. They haven't proposed any Brexit plan either, outside of keeping no deal as an option.
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SHallowvale
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#23
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#23
(Original post by ColinDent)
Therein lies the problem, it is exactly what has been happening ever since the morning after the referendum.
This goes both ways, though. I recall remainers being branded as traitors on the front pages of national newspapers over simply wanting Parliament to have a meaningful vote on the final deal.
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ColinDent
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#24
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#24
(Original post by SHallowvale)
This goes both ways, though. I recall remainers being branded as traitors on the front pages of national newspapers over simply wanting Parliament to have a meaningful vote on the final deal.
Can't disagree, it's why I'm careful about not using the term remoaner, totally unhelpful.
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ByEeek
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
The Brexit Party are the perfect party for those that want Brexit regardless of the consequences and those who like to believe they are being persecuted by the liberal elite/establishment/the BBC/foreigners/sandal-wearing Guardian readers/bankers/avocado-munching millienals/etc.

But really they demonstrate just how vacuous populism is.
Agreed. The more I hear, the more it occurs to me that Brexit is actually a proxy for people who feel the political process has missed. And they are right to feel aggrieved. However, what the don't seem to appreciate is that Brexit will affect them the most, whilst those they are effectively sticking two fingers up to, the rich and politically powerful will simply hunker down in their millionaire pads or worse, take their money elsewhere. This will not achieve political change for the better sadly.
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Burton Bridge
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#26
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#26
(Original post by ColinDent)
Can't disagree, it's why I'm careful about not using the term remoaner, totally unhelpful.
I save the term remaniac for those who act without sence or reason in the name of remain.
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Napp
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#27
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#27
A bunch of no-bodies and has-beens who should slink back into the dark hole they slithered out of.
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Burton Bridge
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#28
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#28
Right on cue Napp
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Burton Bridge
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Dez)
The Brexit party plan:

May 23: Win the EU parliament election
May 24: Go back in time
Mar 29: LEAVE THE EU WITHOUT A DEAL OMG RIGHT NOW!!!!oneone
Mar 30-May 23: ???
May 24-onward: ??????????????????????????
I don't think they have invented time travel!

Agree they are a one trick pony though, more reason for the remainers in Westminster to accept the vote and deliver brexit, then TBP will disappear overnight.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 days ago
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Dez
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I don't think they have invented time travel!

Agree they are a one trick pony though, more reason for the remainers in Westminster to accept the vote and deliver brexit, then TBP will disappear overnight.
They have, but it's got a stuck circuit and can only take us back to 1973.
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sophia.chlo
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#31
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#31
i don’t understand brexit and i don’t care, it’s been going on for too long, everyone’s bored
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#32
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#32
Trotsky's Iceaxe has nailed it. They're completely vacuous. There's no sign of any policies, not even on their single issue (leave isn't a policy since we are already leaving despite the best interests of the country and the rampant criminal activity of various leave campaign groups which, if the referendum was actually legal binding, rather than just being treated as such, would see it overturned and require a rerun). As far as we can see it's just a fan group for Nigel Farage with some more than shady goings on (registering as a private company to hide all funding - given Farages history that likely means funding being shovelled in by the American alt-right like Steve Bannon). They shouldn't be a credible party, but for the ridiculousness of Brexit as a whole, where we want to leave but don't want to leave in any way, making Britain basically the MGTOW of international politics, insisting they're going their own way, but never going away and instead still just standing their *****ing about their ex.
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Burton Bridge
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Trotsky's Iceaxe has nailed it. They're completely vacuous. There's no sign of any policies, not even on their single issue (leave isn't a policy since we are already leaving despite the best interests of the country and the rampant criminal activity of various leave campaign groups which, if the referendum was actually legal binding, rather than just being treated as such, would see it overturned and require a rerun). As far as we can see it's just a fan group for Nigel Farage with some more than shady goings on (registering as a private company to hide all funding - given Farages history that likely means funding being shovelled in by the American alt-right like Steve Bannon). They shouldn't be a credible party, but for the ridiculousness of Brexit as a whole, where we want to leave but don't want to leave in any way, making Britain basically the MGTOW of international politics, insisting they're going their own way, but never going away and instead still just standing their *****ing about their ex.
And the electoral rule breaking of remain?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
And the electoral rule breaking of remain?
Fine, we'll play with your whataboutism. Mind telling me what remain campaign groups were fined and referred to the police like Vote Leave, or fined like Leave.EU?
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Burton Bridge
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Fine, we'll play with your whataboutism. Mind telling me what remain campaign groups were fined and referred to the police like Vote Leave, or fined like Leave.EU?
Pmsl another one

So this what whataboutism only applies to leavers in you're mind also? Again just like Dez it you that is playing this whatabouty as you two call it!

You cannot complain about the referendum result because 'what about this and that' and then complain about whataboutism (if that's even a thing?) when irony is pointed out in you're arugement!

I'm not sure if there was any fines, however I do know there was some action took by the Electoral Commission for misleading flyers. Interesting you play the what's about the fines as soon as irony is pointed out
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Pmsl another one

So this what whataboutism only applies to leavers in you're mind also? Again just like Dez it you that is playing this whatabouty as you two call it!

You cannot complain about the referendum result because 'what about this and that' and then complain about whataboutism (if that's even a thing?) when irony is pointed out in you're arugement!

I'm not sure if there was any fines, however I do know there was some action took by the Electoral Commission for misleading flyers. Interesting you play the what's about the fines as soon as irony is pointed out
Right, so to establish then, it was leave campaigns, and only leave campaigns that were found guilty of breaking electoral regulations, and your "what about the remain campaign" is meaningless *******s.

Also, are you seriously asking if whataboutism is actually a thing? It's well known as a diversion tactic, particularly in propaganda: https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...origin-meaning
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tomahawker314
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#37
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#37
I think they are a fine party to have elected into the EU simply because it acts as a protest against the two big parties who have quite clearly abandoned voters on all sides, and for the fact that the EU elections shouldn't make much impact in reality as we will be leaving at some point in the near future.
However i very much hope they don't gain momentum beyond that, as many others have pointed out they have very little substance
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ColinDent
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Right, so to establish then, it was leave campaigns, and only leave campaigns that were found guilty of breaking electoral regulations, and your "what about the remain campaign" is meaningless *******s.

Also, are you seriously asking if whataboutism is actually a thing? It's well known as a diversion tactic, particularly in propaganda: https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...origin-meaning
As Burton has already pointed out in this thread there was the case of the electoral commission forcing the postal ballot papers to be rewritten due to the example showing a cross in the remain box, but only after thousands had already been sent out.
Not to mention the legal, but morally ambiguous leaflet/ EU propaganda sheet that was sent to every UK household on the eve ( no not literally for the pedants) of the purdah using £millions of taxpayers money, no balance in that whatsoever.
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Burton Bridge
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Right, so to establish then, it was leave campaigns, and only leave campaigns that were found guilty of breaking electoral regulations, and your "what about the remain campaign" is meaningless *******s.

Also, are you seriously asking if whataboutism is actually a thing? It's well known as a diversion tactic, particularly in propaganda: https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...origin-meaning
No its not meaningless whatever you stared out because you jack the vocabulary to state it in plain English!

I have clearly stated a fact that there was action taken by the regulatory body (Electoral Commission) for rule-breaking on behalf of the remain campaign. Do you condone this, because yet again you use 'whataboutery' to try to divert to the wrong doing of leave while painting remain completely innocent which they clearly aren't!

Regards whataboutism it's a term I have only just came across, thank you for the link

You can try to divert (irony bell) all you wish, the fact is the brexit jack-in-the-box won't go back in. People are demanding Brexit and this may not sit well with you but that's why TBP are soaring in current polls.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 days ago
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fallen_acorns
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Right, so to establish then, it was leave campaigns, and only leave campaigns that were found guilty of breaking electoral regulations, and your "what about the remain campaign" is meaningless *******s.

Also, are you seriously asking if whataboutism is actually a thing? It's well known as a diversion tactic, particularly in propaganda: https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...origin-meaning
whataboutism only works as a defense if the subject in question is the exception rather then the rule. Its not a universal get-out-of-jail card when ever anyone mentions a comparable wrong-doing as a defense.

For example:

lets say you have a class of kids in school.. and the teacher tells off bobby for talking during class.

Bobby says "but what about frank??"

The teacher points out that it doesn't matter what frank was doing, talking is still wrong, and if the teacher sees frank doing it, the same rule will be applied.

= good use of whataboutism by the teacher. It makes no difference what frank was doing, bobby still broke the rules, and should be punished, as should frank next time.

But lets say every kid in the class was talking, all 30 of them. The teacher tells off bobby, and bobby says "but what about everyone else??". If the teacher now using a whataboutism-type argument, is the teacher still in the right? If you are an objective outsider looking in, surely your first question would be, if the misbehavior was the rule not the exception, what is the motivation of the teacher to punish a single student and pick them out above all else? If the problem is so widespread, there is no way the teacher could have missed it, so do they have a motive behind their choice of who to call out? Do they have history with bobby? etc.

In the second case, a whataboutism-type arguement falls down.

---

So bringing it back to brexit, to make a whataboutism defense, you would need to first demonstrate that electoral issues are not the norm, and if they do prove common, B, justify why you are picking out brexit to focus on over other examples. Just crying whataboutism, isn't enough.

----

for the OP - the brexit party are an awful re-boot of UKIP aimed at giving nige an ego boost, and putting him back in the public eye for a year or so. They are nothing but cynical, and nothing more then a protest vote against the current goverment. In the end though, they will likely achieve nothing, just as UKIP have.
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