Majority of Europeans expect end of EU within 20 years Watch

HucktheForde
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More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation, despite support for the bloc hitting heights not recorded in more than a quarter of a century.

In France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Slovakia, Romania, Greece, the Czech Republic and Poland, a majority of people surveyed thought EU disintegration was a “realistic possibility” in the next 10 to 20 years.

The figures are particularly stark in France, where President Emmanuel Macron’s La République En Marche party is trailing behind Marine Le Pen’s Brussels-bashing Rassemblement National (RN) in the polls for next week’s European elections.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithin-20-years

if this really happens suddenly brexit doesnt seem so crazy
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DarthRoar
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Yeah, the EU is in bad shape right now. Britain is leaving, France and Germany are no longer working together, the eastern states like Hungary are also distancing themselves.

If the worst climate change fears come true and even more migrants come, then right-wing governments will come to power en-mass and withdraw from the EU.
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PTMalewski
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The EU Parliament also works hard for the EU to have to worst possible opinion. This house of lunatics who don't have almost any power anyway, should be liquidated at once.
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Napp
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I do find it rather odd that europhobes keep rattling on about surveys, statistics, polls, experts etc. all being a load of tosh until it vaguely alines with their malign views..
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fallen_acorns
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I think they are probably right. I do expect within my lifetime the EU in its current form to die. It doesn't seem like a sustainable way of running a group of nations to me.

But what I think those who say it will die often miss, is for me when it does, it won't be replaced by a return to the nation-state, it will die and be replaced by something far bigger and more reaching. Most likely a unitied-states-of-europe.

I would support that far more then the current EU. For all of its problems, the way that the founding fathers in america and subsiquent leaders have walked the line between state autonomy, and having a collective single identity is genius, and its the example that europe should follow.

Either we go back to nation states, who have a few agreements together.. or we just go all in, behind some inspirational leader, and become one nation, with multiple states. Both seem ideologically sound to me, and both are much more preferable then the half-in half-out option, that we have now.. where we are slowly creeping towards unification, rather than just going for it. Its the creep that feels so bad to people, and the way that the EU is run, the lack of clear leadership and represenation (its there, but it doesn't matter if the people don't feel it or identify with it) that is causing our problems.

So then for me, if I look at the dirrection that the world is heading in, with ginormous super-powered states, and potential states.. the likes of China, America, India, potentially brazil, and potentially africa in the future.. for me it just makes europes micro-nation state model seem outdated and unable to compete. So for me, if the EU does die.. the most likely option is that its replaced by something far bigger and more unified, rather then going back to the past.
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paul514
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation, despite support for the bloc hitting heights not recorded in more than a quarter of a century.

In France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Slovakia, Romania, Greece, the Czech Republic and Poland, a majority of people surveyed thought EU disintegration was a “realistic possibility” in the next 10 to 20 years.

The figures are particularly stark in France, where President Emmanuel Macron’s La République En Marche party is trailing behind Marine Le Pen’s Brussels-bashing Rassemblement National (RN) in the polls for next week’s European elections.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithin-20-years

if this really happens suddenly brexit doesnt seem so crazy
And all of this because it wants to be a state without a mandate from the people in those countries....

Should have stuck to an economic union and changed freedom of movement rules when they allowed the poor countries to join.
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Napp
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(Original post by paul514)
And all of this because it wants to be a state without a mandate from the people in those countries....

Should have stuck to an economic union and changed freedom of movement rules when they allowed the poor countries to join.
You are aware they stage regular elections...? Which is ipso facto a mandate.

I'm curious what your issue with freedom of movement is though? It's benefited the nation immeasurably through cheap talented labour which the average shiftless layabout Brit isnt willing to do.
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paul514
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(Original post by Napp)
You are aware they stage regular elections...? Which is ipso facto a mandate.

I'm curious what your issue with freedom of movement is though? It's benefited the nation immeasurably through cheap talented labour which the average shiftless layabout Brit isnt willing to do.
I know you have a habit of reading what you like into people’s posts but even you can’t be that stupid.

An election for MEP’s isn’t consent from the citizens of those countries that they want to be a member of the EU AND that they want the political side of the EU including ever closer union.
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Napp
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(Original post by paul514)
I know you have a habit of reading what you like into people’s posts but even you can’t be that stupid.

An election for MEP’s isn’t consent from the citizens of those countries that they want to be a member of the EU AND that they want the political side of the EU including ever closer union.
Is this coming from the person who doesnt know even basic political theory...?
No, that comes from the national elections. Even you cant be that stupid not to know such a basic fact? Show me a single country that has been publicly, and popularly, demanding to break out of the EU? I cant think of a single example.
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mildhan
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I think they are probably right. I do expect within my lifetime the EU in its current form to die. It doesn't seem like a sustainable way of running a group of nations to me.

But what I think those who say it will die often miss, is for me when it does, it won't be replaced by a return to the nation-state, it will die and be replaced by something far bigger and more reaching. Most likely a unitied-states-of-europe.

I would support that far more then the current EU. For all of its problems, the way that the founding fathers in america and subsiquent leaders have walked the line between state autonomy, and having a collective single identity is genius, and its the example that europe should follow.

Either we go back to nation states, who have a few agreements together.. or we just go all in, behind some inspirational leader, and become one nation, with multiple states. Both seem ideologically sound to me, and both are much more preferable then the half-in half-out option, that we have now.. where we are slowly creeping towards unification, rather than just going for it. Its the creep that feels so bad to people, and the way that the EU is run, the lack of clear leadership and represenation (its there, but it doesn't matter if the people don't feel it or identify with it) that is causing our problems.

So then for me, if I look at the dirrection that the world is heading in, with ginormous super-powered states, and potential states.. the likes of China, America, India, potentially brazil, and potentially africa in the future.. for me it just makes europes micro-nation state model seem outdated and unable to compete. So for me, if the EU does die.. the most likely option is that its replaced by something far bigger and more unified, rather then going back to the past.
I highly doubt the EU will die, but I'm sure it will change and adapt, so it won't be the exact same EU in 10-20 years as it is today. Just like the EU isn't the exact same today as it was 10-20 years ago.

I think your idea of Europe basically being one country is ludicrous and would never work. Many countries in Europe are so different, with different ideologies, different sources of income, and in general very different views on things to possibly function as one country? It would never work, even in a US type setup because at least the different states have more in common with each other than some countries in the Europe do. It would just cause large populations to be very unhappy and it would collapse quickly anyway. Really don't understand why you think this is even a possibly viable idea at all.
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mildhan
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
More than half of Europeans believe the EU is likely to collapse within a generation, despite support for the bloc hitting heights not recorded in more than a quarter of a century.

In France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Slovakia, Romania, Greece, the Czech Republic and Poland, a majority of people surveyed thought EU disintegration was a “realistic possibility” in the next 10 to 20 years.

The figures are particularly stark in France, where President Emmanuel Macron’s La République En Marche party is trailing behind Marine Le Pen’s Brussels-bashing Rassemblement National (RN) in the polls for next week’s European elections.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ithin-20-years

if this really happens suddenly brexit doesnt seem so crazy
This survey does not seem too reliable. I am Swedish and know as a fact that Swedes are still very pro EU, probably more so than previously as the only party who wanted out of the EU now believes in remaining but aiming for reform in the EU. Seems a bit like a brexit article aimed to make brexiters feel better about leaving the EU. They certainly don't don't believe that the EU will collapse within 10 to 20 years. Really haven't read anything in the news about anything of the kind in the other countries mentioned in the survey.

The second survey also makes me very skeptical to this article as that really has nothing even to do with the EU, but yet, it is in the same article?
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by mildhan)
I highly doubt the EU will die, but I'm sure it will change and adapt, so it won't be the exact same EU in 10-20 years as it is today. Just like the EU isn't the exact same today as it was 10-20 years ago.

I think your idea of Europe basically being one country is ludicrous and would never work. Many countries in Europe are so different, with different ideologies, different sources of income, and in general very different views on things to possibly function as one country? It would never work, even in a US type setup because at least the different states have more in common with each other than some countries in the Europe do. It would just cause large populations to be very unhappy and it would collapse quickly anyway. Really don't understand why you think this is even a possibly viable idea at all.
Not only do I think this is possible - I think its entirely inevitable.

If your main reason for its impossibility is that we are very different - then I would point to the trend in the 20th and 21st century of us all becoming more similar. Compare how different each European nation was in 1890.. to how different they are today, and what you will find is that we are becoming more and more similar by the year. More of us speak the same language then ever before, we consume more of the same media, eat more of the same food, have more of the same policies/laws (thanks to the EU) - we all travel around, live and work in each others countries etc. Our buildings look increasingly the same, our music is increasingly similar etc.

If the only thing keeping us from being one nation is our differences, then its only a matter of time, because our differences are fading quickly.

Then on the other hand you have the rise of super-nations, massive powers that dwarf us in every possible way. In a globalized world, a European nation is the only way we will be able to compete militarily and economically. The leaders of the EU know this, and its why they are constantly pushing for more integration. My reason for thinking the EU will die before this happens is because of the flawed way that the EU has tried to creep towards this goal, it has created far to much hostility towards it. I think the powers that be will eventually see it as an easier option to simply get rid of the EU, and the directly replace it with something else, rather than try and persuade people to change their minds about the EU, and forget its history.
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paul514
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(Original post by Napp)
Is this coming from the person who doesnt know even basic political theory...?
No, that comes from the national elections. Even you cant be that stupid not to know such a basic fact? Show me a single country that has been publicly, and popularly, demanding to break out of the EU? I cant think of a single example.
You can’t think of an example because the citizens aren’t asked in a referendum!

FFS 🙄
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Napp
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(Original post by paul514)
You can’t think of an example because the citizens aren’t asked in a referendum!

FFS 🙄
Re-read that kid, you might be able to notice where you cocked up there.
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paul514
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(Original post by Napp)
Re-read that kid, you might be able to notice where you cocked up there.
Nope, I didn’t.

I’m really fed up of these interactions with you, they add nothing and are almost always are complete *******s.
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Napp
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(Original post by paul514)
Nope, I didn’t.

I’m really fed up of these interactions with you, they add nothing and are almost always are complete *******s.
You don't know much about politics and how elections work do you?

Oh cry me a river. If you stop making such ignorant posts you wouldnt have this problem.
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paul514
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(Original post by Napp)
You don't know much about politics and how elections work do you?

Oh cry me a river. If you stop making such ignorant posts you wouldnt have this problem.
Nah I know sod all about politics I just come on the politics section on here for an education 😂
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Napp
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(Original post by paul514)
Nah I know sod all about politics
I know, you demonstrate it with alarming regularity.
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paul514
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That’s a second person on the ignore list enjoy vinny as company
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I think they are probably right. I do expect within my lifetime the EU in its current form to die. It doesn't seem like a sustainable way of running a group of nations to me.

But what I think those who say it will die often miss, is for me when it does, it won't be replaced by a return to the nation-state, it will die and be replaced by something far bigger and more reaching. Most likely a unitied-states-of-europe.

I would support that far more then the current EU. For all of its problems, the way that the founding fathers in america and subsiquent leaders have walked the line between state autonomy, and having a collective single identity is genius, and its the example that europe should follow.

Either we go back to nation states, who have a few agreements together.. or we just go all in, behind some inspirational leader, and become one nation, with multiple states. Both seem ideologically sound to me, and both are much more preferable then the half-in half-out option, that we have now.. where we are slowly creeping towards unification, rather than just going for it. Its the creep that feels so bad to people, and the way that the EU is run, the lack of clear leadership and represenation (its there, but it doesn't matter if the people don't feel it or identify with it) that is causing our problems.

So then for me, if I look at the dirrection that the world is heading in, with ginormous super-powered states, and potential states.. the likes of China, America, India, potentially brazil, and potentially africa in the future.. for me it just makes europes micro-nation state model seem outdated and unable to compete. So for me, if the EU does die.. the most likely option is that its replaced by something far bigger and more unified, rather then going back to the past.
PRSOM. This is exactly right - the choice is not between the EU and some kind of 1950s model of sovereignty (which never really existed anyway) but between the EU and global US hegemony, or global China/Russia hegemony.

In fact, weakening the EU has been a major goal of both Putin and Trump. They see the collapse of the EU as a way to crush the market players of the EU economy and replace them with their interests. The EU Commission has in particular aroused the wrath of big interests in the US by challenging US monopolies like the big digital corporations.

People like Farage are just tools in a Great Game being played out by global oligarchs.
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