GDL, LPC sponsorships and training contracts... HELP Watch

jmjmjm17803
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Hi,I am currently completing my second year in History at Uni of Bristol and want to convert to law to become a solicitor after my degree. I am concerned about being able to afford to do the GDL and LPC; i wont be eligible for any kind of bursary or scholarship but simultaneously my parents will obviously not be able to fund it, and I have heard you cannot get loans in the same way you do for undergraduate or even postgraduate degrees. If i do a summer vacation scheme at the end of third year - Summer 2020, I believe it is possible I could be offered a training contract to commence September 2022? I would then do the GDL in 2020-2021 and LPC in 2021-2022. But, I heard that some firms sponsor your GDL and LPC if they offer you a training contract which would be amazing! I am just v. confused as surely if my vacation scheme is in summer 2020 I would be starting my GDL a month or so later... so surely it would be too late for me to get a sponsor from the law firm i do my placement with for a course that starts a month or so later! Hope this makes sense? Please can someone explain / explain other ways of funding all of this - would be a massive help!
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flatlined
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You're pretty badly researched. Law is terrible and if you're competent, you should realise there are better jobs out there. Additionally you seem to be totally unaware of the new system coming into place. People shouldn't spoonfeed you, you should google.
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jmjmjm17803
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The SQE (the new system you talk of) is coming in a year after me finishing my degree so makes most sense for me to do the GDL rather than waiting around a year - according to what i have researched. LOL at 'people shouldn't spoonfeed you' - this is a forum made for people to ask questions??? Theres kinda no need for u to reply just to be a prick with no helpful advice whatsover haha
(Original post by flatlined)
You're pretty badly researched. Law is terrible and if you're competent, you should realise there are better jobs out there. Additionally you seem to be totally unaware of the new system coming into place. People shouldn't spoonfeed you, you should google.
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flatlined
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I’ve censored out your personal abuse and swearing as it no doubt will shortly be removed and you will accordingly receive a warning or ban.

But I am quoting you because I provided several very lengthy posts in assisting your questions. I did go out of my way. You said it was helpful.

How ungrateful and miserable can you be as a person to offer up this kind of personal abuse to someone who tried to assist you personally, no matter your opinion of this thread?

(Original post by Palmyra)
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laurenlodge
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(Original post by Palmyra)
There's no need to project your own personal issues onto the OP. Why waste your time and OP's time just to be a prick?
Best to just ignore what he says - most people do.

OP - yes, timings are tricky. You just need to figure out whether you're happy to wait that extra year (get some work experience even in a different industry, go abroad) if you find the vacation scheme firm offer you a TC with sponsorship. I was older than you so I just pushed ahead and self-funded the GDL but at second year undergrad you've got plenty of time.

Some firms do winter placements too - might be worth seeing if you can find any you like that would give you a Feb 2020 placement. At least that would give you a chance to stay in the cycle with a 2020 GDL start.
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flatlined
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Perhaps you should read my post and do some research too. Only really stupid people who can’t get training training contracts self-fund the GDL, but it is not an extra year and you just simply don’t understand the system.
(Original post by laurenlodge)
Best to just ignore what he says - most people do.

OP - yes, timings are tricky. You just need to figure out whether you're happy to wait that extra year (get some work experience even in a different industry, go abroad) if you find the vacation scheme firm offer you a TC with sponsorship. I was older than you so I just pushed ahead and self-funded the GDL but at second year undergrad you've got plenty of time.

Some firms do winter placements too - might be worth seeing if you can find any you like that would give you a Feb 2020 placement. At least that would give you a chance to stay in the cycle with a 2020 GDL start.
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Palmyra
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(Original post by flatlined)
But I am quoting you because I provided several very lengthy posts in assisting your questions. I did go out of my way. You said it was helpful.

How ungrateful and miserable can you be as a person to offer up this kind of personal abuse to someone who tried to assist you personally, no matter your opinion of this thread?

(Original post by Palmyra)
My appreciation for your prior help does not preclude my ability to criticise your unnecessarily rude tone and language in an entirely different context. Far from being "personal abuse", I would be doing a disservice if I didn't try to politely inform you of how rude and uncouth you were coming across as.

You can be very helpful and knowledgeable, it's just a shame you have to ruin it by making yourself look like an angry, miserable and rude fool.
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flatlined
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You have sworn at me and provided personal abuse obviously against forum rules. You are not polite. Do not respond to me again please.
(Original post by Palmyra)
My appreciation for your prior help does not preclude my ability to criticise your unnecessarily rude tone and language in an entirely different context. Far from being "personal abuse", I would be doing a disservice if I didn't try to politely inform you of how rude and uncouth you were coming across as.

You can be very helpful and knowledgeable, it's just a shame you have to ruin it by making yourself look like an angry, miserable and rude fool.
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laurenlodge
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(Original post by flatlined)
Perhaps you should read my post and do some research too. Only really stupid people who can’t get training training contracts self-fund the GDL, but it is not an extra year and you just simply don’t understand the system.
I've spent four years applying for TCs, talking to practising lawyers/recruiters and doing the GDL/LPC so I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment on this without doing extra research thank you. My original advice to the OP stands. As I was told verbatim by a recruiter at a firm, self-funding the GDL shows a level of commitment to converting to law that firms like to see - often otherwise tricky to demonstrate as a non-law graduate. Yes, not ideal as an outlay - hence why (if you'd actually read my post) I suggest that getting a TC via a work experience placement is the better option.

If self-funding makes me 'stupid' in your opinion that's fine since I literally couldn't care less about what you think.

You obviously have some issues; perhaps you should firstly work on your attitude and in doing so leave those of us who actually want to respond helpfully to posters in peace. Toning down the condescension in literally everything you post would also be a good start.
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flatlined
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I’m a lawyer. Your advice with respect to the GDL and the SQE is wrong as per my posts above. The very first google result would tell you that the 2021 SQE which should cost only a few k is a combined version of the GDL and LPC. You would advocate mindlessly spending 30k on fees plus living costs over 2 years rather than doing the SQE which costs only a few k for a year earlier completion date. In 2021, if one takes and passes the SQE, they have the equivalent of the GDL and LPC. If someone does the GDL in 2020, they complete in 2021 and need to do the LPC finishing in 2022. Every single google result on the first page of “SQE” explains this in detail. The OP and yourself apparently haven’t bothered to type “SQE” into google, but feel sufficiently well informed to argue fervently on it.

The advice you were given by the recruiter is wrong and extremely damaging to repeat on here. I hope others also to see it to pass comment. Self funding the GDL is almost always an extremely bad idea. If you really want to be a high street solicitor and maybe you want to work in crime, then those law firms are unlikely to fund, but I cannot stress enough that city law firms do not care if you have done a law degree. The GDL adds absolutely no value to an application. Best of luck with your TC applications...

There are also hundreds of threads on here with many informed posters regarding whether one should self fund the GDL. There is a search bar on this forum. If you disagree with me, perhaps you should start fighting with the majority of posters in every one of those threads too.
(Original post by laurenlodge)
I've spent four years applying for TCs, talking to practising lawyers/recruiters and doing the GDL/LPC so I think I'm perfectly qualified to comment on this without doing extra research thank you. My original advice to the OP stands. As I was told verbatim by a recruiter at a firm, self-funding the GDL shows a level of commitment to converting to law that firms like to see - often otherwise tricky to demonstrate as a non-law graduate. Yes, not ideal as an outlay - hence why (if you'd actually read my post) I suggest that getting a TC via a work experience placement is the better option.

If self-funding makes me 'stupid' in your opinion that's fine since I literally couldn't care less about what you think.

You obviously have some issues; perhaps you should firstly work on your attitude and in doing so leave those of us who actually want to respond helpfully to posters in peace. Toning down the condescension in literally everything you post would also be a good start.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by flatlined)
Perhaps you should read my post and do some research too. Only really stupid people who can’t get training training contracts self-fund the GDL, but it is not an extra year and you just simply don’t understand the system.
I don't think it's fair to say that "only really stupid people" self fund the GDL since most people doing so already have a 2.1 or better from good unis. It's not easy for people doing a non Law degree to gain enough legal work experience to justify a Law firm paying for their GDL, especially if they only decided on Law in their final year. For example, I know someone with a First in History from Warwick who self funded the GDL and I would hardly say she is "really stupid." However, it is true that people need to research just how competitive Law is before self funding a GDL since the girl I am referring to was one of the few on that years University of Law cohort to actually secure a TC. Most of the others eventually gave up their interest in Law despite, as I mentioned, having good degrees from good unis, or are still working as paralegals several years after completing the GDL & LPC.

And to answer OPs question about the funding of GDLs, I believe that BPP and Uni of Law have schemes in place, just contact them for details.
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laurenlodge
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(Original post by flatlined)
I’m a lawyer. Your advice with respect to the GDL and the SQE is wrong as per my posts above. The very first google result would tell you that the 2021 SQE which should cost only a few k is a combined version of the GDL and LPC. You would advocate mindlessly spending 30k on fees plus living costs over 2 years rather than doing the SQE which costs only a few k for a year earlier completion date. In 2021, if one takes and passes the SQE, they have the equivalent of the GDL and LPC. If someone does the GDL in 2020, they complete in 2021 and need to do the LPC finishing in 2022. Every single google result on the first page of “SQE” explains this in detail. The OP and yourself apparently haven’t bothered to type “SQE” into google, but feel sufficiently well informed to argue fervently on it.

The advice you were given by the recruiter is wrong and extremely damaging to repeat on here. I hope others also to see it to pass comment. Self funding the GDL is almost always an extremely bad idea. If you really want to be a high street solicitor and maybe you want to work in crime, then those law firms are unlikely to fund, but I cannot stress enough that city law firms do not care if you have done a law degree. The GDL adds absolutely no value to an application. Best of luck with your TC applications...

There are also hundreds of threads on here with many informed posters regarding whether one should self fund the GDL. There is a search bar on this forum. If you disagree with me, perhaps you should start fighting with the majority of posters in every one of those threads too.
Right, well if you're a practising lawyer (the bitterness makes a hell of a lot of sense now) it's a damned shame you're choosing to come on to this forum and actively poison people looking to enter the profession instead of offering help or constructive advice.

A number of things in your above post that mean you maybe should re-read my original advice to the OP:
- I never at any point factored the SQE into my advice - nor did I profess to have and don't believe I even mentioned it in my post. As a non-law graduate I wouldn't have been confident in my ability to self-teach and pass the SQE exams off the bat and needed the GDL teaching. It might be different for law grads who have 3 years of legal learning but the OP doesn't. (Oh and if not self-taught they're likely to have to need a prep course - £ and time of these courses is yet to be confirmed. Again, great for law grads who might get this incorporated into their degrees, but for non-law grads - BPP/UoL currently are 'developing courses'. Sounds a lot like a renamed GDL to me).
- I don't 'mindlessly advocate' spending 30k on fees. Please tell me where I suggest self-funding the LPC? I assume you must have inferred that from my post to get to your figures of 2 years and 30k so would be interested to know where from.
- It clearly applied to that firm and is explicitly something they consider in their intake criteria. I'll take their advice over yours. It's up to individual applicants to contact firms they're interested in and ask how they see applicants with a GDL vs without. If they don't have similar views then obviously self-funding isn't the route to take for that applicant. 'Damaging' is silly hyperbole.

I'm sorted for a TC so you can take your sarcastic offer of 'luck' and use it elsewhere, thanks.

Oh and I don't disagree with what your self-funding vs not stance - I disagree with your tone and communication style. So I don't need to pull up other posters because as a rule most people are respectful. You're not.

I'm hoping the OP can glean some useful content in between the lines of what's been posted so far, but don't wish to derail their thread any longer so won't be responding again.
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laurenlodge
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Separately - OP, this is the site that helped me a lot with figuring out whether to go ahead with the GDL/LPC route. I appreciate that I was a year earlier than you are so the situation is slightly different, but would recommend a read:

https://www.lawcareers.net/Informati...we-know-so-far

The "How much will the Solicitors Qualifying Exam cost?" section I found particularly helpful as to what's confirmed (so far just the exam fees) and what isn't (cost of prep courses, whether a modified GDL will still exist/be recommended etc). Hope it's useful!
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J-SP
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(Original post by flatlined)
You have sworn at me and provided personal abuse obviously against forum rules. You are not polite. Do not respond to me again please.
This is almost comical when it comes from someone who has relied on personal insults in the past.
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J-SP
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The majority of solicitors self fund the GDL/LPC btw. So it can’t be that stupid to do so.
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flatlined
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City firms fund the GDL. It is a worthless qualification. City firms do not put value on those who have self funded.

I mean it is stupid to self fund the GDL thinking it is a value add to city firms. A firm which pays more than 30-35k to its trainees in London. It is a waste of money to self fund unless you want to work in a high street firm as I have already stated. It is stupid. Stupid people do stupid things.

Moreover, everyone has a 2:1 and becoming a solicitor does not make you bright. In fact, I’d argue it indicates that you lack creativity and are pretty short sighted. Certainly that’s true for me and most others I know.

It really truly is a gormless thing to do.

I’m on my phone but has anyone had the decency or humility to apologise for incorrect SQE advice? I think I saw ‘oh well we don’t know how much it will be’. Yeah we do. A few thousand and a fraction of the price of the LPC and GDL, that is why it is being introduced.


(Original post by J-SP)
The majority of solicitors self fund the GDL/LPC btw. So it can’t be that stupid to do so.
(Original post by harrysbar)
I don't think it's fair to say that "only really stupid people" self fund the GDL since most people doing so already have a 2.1 or better from good unis. It's not easy for people doing a non Law degree to gain enough legal work experience to justify a Law firm paying for their GDL, especially if they only decided on Law in their final year. For example, I know someone with a First in History from Warwick who self funded the GDL and I would hardly say she is "really stupid." However, it is true that people need to research just how competitive Law is before self funding a GDL since the girl I am referring to was one of the few on that years University of Law cohort to actually secure a TC. Most of the others eventually gave up their interest in Law despite, as I mentioned, having good degrees from good unis, or are still working as paralegals several years after completing the GDL & LPC.

And to answer OPs question about the funding of GDLs, I believe that BPP and Uni of Law have schemes in place, just contact them for details.
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J-SP
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Plenty of non high street firms do not sponsor the GDL.
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flatlined
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Can you name any firms which pay over 35k in London? I mean I don’t know how you are defining high street. Most would agree that say Memery Crystal, a “top 200” law firm (heh) is the arse end of a city firm. I think they pay about 37.
(Original post by J-SP)
Plenty of non high street firms do not sponsor the GDL.
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J-SP
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Why the £35k benchmark? That’s basically a relatively small number of commercial firms at the top end of the market.

The majority of people are not going to work as solicitors in these type of firms.
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flatlined
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Hahahaha!!! You can’t!!!!

In London. Heh. Given the average grad salary in London and paying 20k out of your pocket to do the GDL and live for a year!! You’re thinking of a criminal firm on Brixton high street.

Memery Crystal, Fladgate. Hell even Capsticks. Rosenblatt even?! Top commercial firms?!?!?
(Original post by J-SP)
Why the £35k benchmark? That’s basically a relatively small number of commercial firms at the top end of the market.

The majority of people are not going to work as solicitors in these type of firms.
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