Should cannabis be legalised? Watch

LiberOfLondon
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Yes, in my opinion.

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nexttime
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I'd agree.

We are sooo far from that now though. In hospitals heroin, actual ****ing heroin, is easily prescribable and doctors use it often*. Related products like morphine are used so commonly that we're probably making tens of thousands of people addicted. But prescribing cannabis... absolutely not allowed. Its only very recently that certain very specialised doctors have been allowed to prescribe cannabinoids - synthetic medications related to cannabis - in very specific circumstances. Next to no one actually receives them though.

Why the double standard?

First step is remove restrictions on medical cannabinoids.

For patients, for patients
Last edited by nexttime; 1 month ago
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Tootles
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Yes. Pretty much all the alleged reasons for it being dangerous have been refuted.
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JackBrook
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There's basically a big argument for decriminalization because, well, criminalization hasn't worked very well.

However it's not just a case of 'flick a switch' and make it legal overnight, there would basically need to be regulation of supply (in the same way there is with alcohol) and I'm not really sure we want that either.
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ltsmith
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no
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JoshDarnIt
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Yes
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looloo2134
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Yes, it should only be sold to people over the age of 25 by only train medical professionals who have the customer medical records. Hopefully, it will stop the self-entitled middle-class university student who thinks it is cool to smoke weed. My university halls smelled of weed all the time the middle-class students would sit outside smoking it in full view of the public and the police who never arrested them. They were selfish and didn't care about the fact that most did people did not want drug dealing thugs outside their halls or to have to smell their weed. If it was regulated properly the drug dealers will run out of business and under 25 or people who could get mental illness will not have access to the drug.
(Original post by Tootles)
Yes. Pretty much all the alleged reasons for it being dangerous have been refuted.
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looloo2134
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If it became legal for over 25s it would stop the drug dealers, organized crime and slaves that made to work on farms.
(Original post by JackBrook)
There's basically a big argument for decriminalization because, well, criminalization hasn't worked very well.

However it's not just a case of 'flick a switch' and make it legal overnight, there would basically need to be regulation of supply (in the same way there is with alcohol) and I'm not really sure we want that either.
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Zamestaneh
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Rather than deal with the underlying issues that make people turn to drugs or anything bad in society, we should just facilitate these poisons, right? Sounds smart (sarcasm). Countries need to be less liberal in this regard, otherwise things are just getting worse and worse. This is a bottomless pit and in the future (which people don't like to think about because they are short sighted) there will come a time when things considered bad today will be legalised because a precedent has been set that things should be free - incest, beastiality, etc. Humans will destroy themselves because they never know when to stop.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Rather than deal with the underlying issues that make people turn to drugs or anything bad in society, we should just facilitate these poisons, right? Sounds smart (sarcasm). Countries need to be less liberal in this regard, otherwise things are just getting worse and worse. This is a bottomless pit and in the future (which people don't like to think about because they are short sighted) there will come a time when things considered bad today will be legalised because a precedent has been set that things should be free - incest, beastiality, etc. Humans will destroy themselves because they never know when to stop.
Because dictatorship is so wonderful, am I right? You're welcome to move to North Korea.
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by Mossbourne)
Because dictatorship is so wonderful, am I right? You're welcome to move to North Korea.
Because banning societal poisons like weed, alcohol, gambling, adultery, etc, and starting programs to address the causes of issues which make people want to turn towards these things = dictatorship/North Korea. Okay. Flawless logic - you have beaten me.

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fallen_acorns
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either ban it fully or make it legal.

I can't stand the half-half mess that we have now though. Its basically not criminalized at all at the moment, and you only get a cannabis warning if caught in possession. The only people going to prison these days for cannabis are dealers. but its also not legal, so doesn't have any of the bennifits that legalizaton can bring.

I can see the arguements for making it illigal and actually enforcing it for those under 21-25 or so. Clearly it can have some really bad effects on developing brains. And whilst you can always point to alcohol.. its a lot easier to keep something illegal, then it is to legalize something that has been a part of our culture for centuries. Obviously its not logical the way both are treated at the moment, but when talking practically you can't ban alcohol. Even if it would make a hell of a lot of sense to do so. adding more legal drugs doesn't make a lot of sense, just because we have some bad things, we don't need more, it can be a gateway drug to harder things etc.

I can see the arguements for making it legal as well.. take it (mostly) out of the hands of criminals.. collect some nice tax revenue, people are going to do it anyway, let them do it in a safer way, remove the temptation they get from going to dealers who also deal harder drugs, individual liberty/free choice of what you do with your own body etc.

I honestly would be fine with either. Crack down on drugs - great, make drugs legal - great... but the half-half mess we have now is just a nightmare for all involved. Also, while we are at it - go back to our past alcahol laws where only offlicenses and pubs could sell booze, rather then super markets/corner shops etc. and heavily restrict opening times of clubs/pubs in all but the certain areas Would make the country a much nicer place again.
Last edited by fallen_acorns; 1 month ago
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Because banning societal poisons like weed, alcohol, gambling, adultery, etc, and starting programs to address the causes of issues which make people want to turn towards these things = dictatorship/North Korea. Okay. Flawless logic - you have beaten me.

"societal poison"
Why do you have the power to make decisions for other people's health?
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by Mossbourne)
"societal poison"
Why do you have the power to make decisions for other people's health?
All the things I listed are things which do not harm just the individual, they have the power to harm others around them or make them burdens on society.

Alcohol cons for example:
- Thousands of alcohol related deaths per year
- Thousands of crimes committed under the influence of alcohol
- Thousands of lives ruined by long term health issues created by alcohol consumption e.g. physical disabilities caused by drink driving, liver damage, etc
- Thousands of instances of cheating, regratable one night stands which cause emotional damage, accusations of rape, abortions and spreading of STDs through irresponsible drunk sex, etc, due to the influence of alcohol
- Millions of pounds spent in the NHS dealing with alcohol related issues
- Millions of pounds spent on imprisoning people arrested due to crimes committed whilst under the influence of alcohol
- Thousands of families of anyone influenced by alcohol consumption or their victims suffer emotional (or some times financial) repurcussions too

This isn't just affecting drinkers, this is affecting their victims, their family members, police officers and nurses and care workers, the people who can't get a bed in a hospital or get an appointment due to long lists and waiting times.

I can go into the other poisons I listed, but you should get the gist. Do you not believe it is the duty of the state to regulate or control things if society is too irresponsible to effectively regulate itself? Perhaps you would agree with liberalising gun ownership and making it easier? I mean we can trust people with all these things, so why not guns too?
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the beer
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Rather than deal with the underlying issues that make people turn to drugs or anything bad in society
That's exactly what we do now with prohibition, ignore the underlying issues and simply ban the problem substances, it's much harder to deal with the underlying issues when we've criminalised the people with the issues.
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Zamestaneh
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(Original post by the beer)
That's exactly what we do now with prohibition, ignore the underlying issues and simply ban the problem substances, it's much harder to deal with the underlying issues when we've criminalised the people with the issues.
Need a multifold approach - fear*, education, social projects, invest in jobs, and decriminalising certain medicinal uses of cannabis derived products if they haven't been decriminalised already.

*E.g. reintroducing capital punishment for specific crimes like growing drugs, distribution, etc.

There is more to my ideas but I am too sleepy to expound on them rn but you get the idea.
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looloo2134
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I agree that adultery is bad for society but impossible to ban and has happened since marriage was invented. It is wrong to criminalize what adults do in their bedroom.
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Because banning societal poisons like weed, alcohol, gambling, adultery, etc, and starting programs to address the causes of issues which make people want to turn towards these things = dictatorship/North Korea. Okay. Flawless logic - you have beaten me.

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the beer
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
Need a multifold approach - fear*, education, social projects, invest in jobs, and decriminalising certain medicinal uses of cannabis derived products if they haven't been decriminalised already.

*E.g. reintroducing capital punishment for specific crimes like growing drugs, distribution, etc.

There is more to my ideas but I am too sleepy to expound on them rn but you get the idea.
Have we ever had capital punishment for drugs offenses? Drugs were legal for most of our history.

Increasing the punishment will only increase the reward for people to produce and distribute drugs, they'll simply become richer and more violent and you won't be able to reach out to the users with problem use if they risk punishment for doing so.
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looloo2134
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Most of human history there was no laws it only been a few thousand years there been laws
(Original post by the beer)
Have we ever had capital punishment for drugs offenses? Drugs were legal for most of our history.

Increasing the punishment will only increase the reward for people to produce and distribute drugs, they'll simply become richer and more violent and you won't be able to reach out to the users with problem use if they risk punishment for doing so.
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Wōden
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(Original post by Zamestaneh)
All the things I listed are things which do not harm just the individual, they have the power to harm others around them or make them burdens on society.

Alcohol cons for example:
- Thousands of alcohol related deaths per year
- Thousands of crimes committed under the influence of alcohol
- Thousands of lives ruined by long term health issues created by alcohol consumption e.g. physical disabilities caused by drink driving, liver damage, etc
- Thousands of instances of cheating, regratable one night stands which cause emotional damage, accusations of rape, abortions and spreading of STDs through irresponsible drunk sex, etc, due to the influence of alcohol
- Millions of pounds spent in the NHS dealing with alcohol related issues
- Millions of pounds spent on imprisoning people arrested due to crimes committed whilst under the influence of alcohol
- Thousands of families of anyone influenced by alcohol consumption or their victims suffer emotional (or some times financial) repurcussions too

This isn't just affecting drinkers, this is affecting their victims, their family members, police officers and nurses and care workers, the people who can't get a bed in a hospital or get an appointment due to long lists and waiting times.

I can go into the other poisons I listed, but you should get the gist. Do you not believe it is the duty of the state to regulate or control things if society is too irresponsible to effectively regulate itself? Perhaps you would agree with liberalising gun ownership and making it easier? I mean we can trust people with all these things, so why not guns too?
I would argue overregulation is the very thing that creates an irresponsible society in the first place. Education and instilling a sense of personal responsibilty are far better ways of dealing with the potential dangers and risks in society, than outright prohibition or trying to constantly shelter everybody from all the 'scary things'. The latter only infantalises and leaves people overly dependent on the nanny state to hold their hands, tell them what to do and solve all their problems. I see it creeping in everywhere in this country and many others, too many gutless wimps who couldn't say boo to goose, no sense of gumption or initiative, no ability to critically think, it's pathetic and we need to start reversing it.

Let's take driving as an example. Driving a car is potentially very dangerous, so let's say two people have passed their driving test, which one is going to become the more responsible and safer driver in the long run?

a) The driver who goes in their car regularly?

b) The driver who shys away from their car as much as possible and only uses it when it is absolutely neccessary?

The answer is obviously driver a, because they will build up more experience and confidence on the road. Driver b may well think they are 'safer' by simply not driving as much, but they are not. They will be far more at risk to themselves and others on the occassions they do get on the road, because they won't have same level of experience or confidence to deal with certain situations that arise. Responsibilty is ultimately built by exposure to risk and danger, not by shielding yourself away from it.
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