Why do black Jamaican families almost never home educate? Watch

Trotsky's Iceaxe
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Arran90)
It's called long term experience of involvement in the home education movement combined with enquiries with other home educating parents and activists.

Black Jamaican and non-Muslim Asian home educating families are as rare as hen's teeth as they rarely turn up and hardly any other home educating parents and activists seem to know any. Even the few black Jamaican and non-Muslim Asian home educating families which have been encountered over the years say exactly the same things.

Chinese home educating families are also rare but it is a much smaller ethnic group to start with and more spread out than most other ethnic groups. There is some evidence that a high proportion of home educated Chinese children are child prodigies.
When someone points out that anecdotes constitution poor evidence, don't respond with more anecdotes.

For someone who is or at least claims to be heavily invested in education, I'm surprised you don't support your arguments with more substantial evidence. Evidence based reasoning should be instinctive to someone like yourself and you should know that failure to do so will not convince anyone.

I also note that you avoided answering how you've concluded I'm ideologically opposed to home education.
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Arran90
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#22
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#22
(Original post by TheRealSquiddy)
Independent
Was this a really small religious school or a SEN school?
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username2923348
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#23
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(Original post by Arran90)
Was this a really small religious school or a SEN school?
Neither, it was a independent academy.
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Arran90
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#24
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#24
(Original post by TheRealSquiddy)
Neither, it was a independent academy.
Academies don't count! I'm referring to independent fee paying schools for the purpose of this discussion.
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username2923348
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#25
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#25
It was a fee paying academy. Not all academies are free.
(Original post by Arran90)
Academies don't count! I'm referring to independent fee paying schools for the purpose of this discussion.
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Arran90
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#26
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#26
Nobody has yet answered these questions:

1. Whether a high proportion of black Jamaican families in Britain would choose to send their children to independent schools if they could afford to do so, or whether there are other prohibitive factors - such as children not fitting in culturally or reluctant to put in the effort to maintain the required academic standards for most independent schools – that will result in them overwhelmingly choosing state schools regardless of their financial status.

2. Why do black Jamaican boys overwhelmingly gravitate towards sports and music at school but dislike STEM subjects?

3. A lot of fuss has been made over the years about history being too 'white' but do a significant numbers of black Jamaican students even want a history GCSE? Will the number of black Jamaican students taking history for GCSE at KS4 notably increase if the syllabus contains plenty of 'black' history?

4. Following on from (3) does 'black' history from the perspective of black Jamaicans mean African history or does it centre around slavery in the Caribbean?

5. Is it common for black Jamaican children to study 'black' history in their own time outside of school?

6. Are there any particular GCSE subjects that are particularly sought after by a significant proportion of black Jamaican students?
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Kinyonga
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#27
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#27
Maybe we should ask ourselves why people choose to homeschool their kids in the first place?
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Arran90
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Kinyonga)
Maybe we should ask ourselves why people choose to homeschool their kids in the first place?
There's 1001 different reasons. The home education community is not united. In fact there are home educating families of one persuasion who detest home educating families of another persuasion.

What doesn't really exist in the UK is a large Christian home education movement like in the US. I make a guess that half of all white indigenous British home educating families are not even religious.
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Obolinda
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#29
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#29
Why do you think anybody on TSR will be able to answer all the questions? :lol:
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Arran90
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Obolinda)
Why do you think anybody on TSR will be able to answer all the questions? :lol:
It's worth a shot. I'm sure that there are plenty of black Jamaican users of TSR who are able to shed some light on the situation.

A point that has been made in the home education community is whether a high proportion of black Jamaican parents are unaware that home education is legal in Britain. This is despite state school not being the default option for any children so parents have to opt-in (register their children) with state schools rather than opt-out. Home education is legal in Jamaica and has been since the early 1980s at least.
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Arran90
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#31
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#31
(Original post by hendyrix)
However, in terms of culture, homeschooling is just not what we do. It's not really thought of as an option as its pretty much the cultural norm to go to state school and there are no significant reasons why we would not go there.
There is the overarching question of what exactly do black Jamaican students and their parents want out of state schools?

It certainly doesn't look like GCSE grades as mentioned in #12. Is it common for black Jamaican children to have study books for main school subjects at home - and use them - or are they something that they rarely have?

Sometimes I wonder whether the time that black Jamaican children spend at state schools really is THEIR time well spent if they end up with poor GCSE grades and, more often than not, a poor level of academic knowledge. Superficially an observer could be tempted to say that in the case of large numbers of black Jamaican children, participation (attending school) is more important than winning (achieving good GCSE grades).

Attending state schools may be the cultural norm for black Jamaican children. Poor and lacklustre GCSE grades may also be another cultural norm. However, do parents and community leaders ever question the rationale behind such decisions?
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ltsmith
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#32
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#32
Home schoolers are a minority.

Jamaicans are also a minority.

So you have minority ^ 2, hence you see very few, if not, none.
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Arran90
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#33
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#33
(Original post by ltsmith)
Home schoolers are a minority.

Jamaicans are also a minority.

So you have minority ^ 2, hence you see very few, if not, none.
Muslims are a minority but there are many times the number of home educated Muslim children than there are home educated (non-Muslim) black Jamaican children.

Pagans are an even smaller minority but it's quite possible that Paganism is the religion where the highest proportion of children are home educated. Most are white indigenous British though. I'm not sure if any black Jamaican Pagans exist but if they do then they are rarer than hen's teeth.
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Arran90
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#34
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#34
(Original post by hendyrix)
I think too many people try and make these sort of discussions about race but really it's more to do with class and income.
Differences in income and wealth are for real. Socioeconomic groups also generally seem to exist.

Social class is a completely different matter. The reality is that working and lower class are less about one's income or their occupation and more about them being a subculture that certain people subscribe to because of their preferences, upbringing, and cultural affinity. In other words, being working or lower class are a personal choice nowadays more so than a victim a circumstance.

Does social class (as opposed to income, wealth, and socioeconomic group) apply to ethnic minorities or is it something that only applies to the white indigenous British folk - or even only exists in the minds of such folk?

Social mobility appears to be higher amongst south Asians than it is for the white indigenous British and the black Jamaicans. It's quite commonplace to find south Asians who are in professional careers or are comfortably well off who's parents worked in menial or low skilled low paid jobs. The main reason behind this phenomenon are high aspirations amongst large numbers of south Asian families. Could it even be possible that whilst large numbers of south Asians are / were in socioeconomic group D (the lower or the traditional working class) only a small fraction of them actually called themselves working class or had any cultural affinity with people in the same socioeconomic group from the white indigenous British?

The black Jamaicans had a much lower level of aspiration than the south Asians did. An example was that back in the 1970s there were lots of black Jamaican and south Asian bus conductors. The south Asian bus conductors did not want their children to be bus conductors, and neither did the children themselves, as they both wanted better careers. The black Jamaican bus conductors wanted their children to be bus conductors, and so did many of the children themselves, and few had any desire for better or alternative careers. Was this a result of the south Asian bus conductors not viewing themselves and their children as part of a social class but the black Jamaican bus conductors saw themselves as part of a social class?

Why exactly do south Asians have a higher level of aspiration than black Jamaicans do?

Black Jamaicans are just as materialistic as most other people in Britain are so low aspirations and educational attainment are not a result of a culture and lifestyle of minimalism like the Amish. It's commonplace for black Jamaican children to have expensive clothes, trainers, bikes, game consoles, and smartphones even if their families are poor. Outside of music and entertainment it's difficult to deny that black Jamaicans are followers rather than leaders.

Therefore do black Jamaicans who are in lower socioeconomic groups actually consider themselves as being working or lower class?
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aa-k
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#35
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Why would there be demand for black only schools?
(Original post by Arran90)
I have been involved in the home education community for many years, and I have noticed that there are almost no black Jamaican families who home educate their children. What is the reason behind this?

I do not believe that it is primarily the result of financial status but some deeper seated cultural issues play a large part in the decision of almost every black Jamaican parent to send their children to state schools.

Black Jamaican children are also uncommon / underrepresented in independent schools (in comparison to south Asian children and even black African children). There also appears to be no public demand for black only schools with black teachers and in some cases a different curriculum from state schools.
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Arran90
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#36
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#36
(Original post by aa-k)
Why would there be demand for black only schools?
Different styles of teaching more in tune with black Jamaican children. It's a known fact that (white) teachers recurringly say that black Jamaican children are often very challenging to teach.

Black teachers might be better role models than white teachers.

A different curriculum that takes the interests of black Jamaican children into account - like more black history.
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aa-k
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#37
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The curriculum change is fine, but the teachers should be chosen based on their ability to teach. To say that teachers should be chosen based on the colour of their skin is a racist statement.
(Original post by Arran90)
Different styles of teaching more in tune with black Jamaican children. It's a known fact that (white) teachers recurringly say that black Jamaican children are often very challenging to teach.

Black teachers might be better role models than white teachers.

A different curriculum that takes the interests of black Jamaican children into account - like more black history.
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Arran90
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#38
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#38
(Original post by aa-k)
The curriculum change is fine, but the teachers should be chosen based on their ability to teach. To say that teachers should be chosen based on the colour of their skin is a racist statement.
There was a recruitment drive for black (Jamaican?) police officers by the Metropolitan Police back in the 1980s, following either the Brixton or the Tottenham riots, as a result of police chiefs believing that black Jamaicans are more likely to respect and obey a black police officer than a white British police officer and it will ultimately reduce the levels of crime committed by black Jamaicans, who at the time were the difficult and challenging ethnic group.
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aa-k
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#39
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I would understand if there was evidence and research behind it, but it is simply a belief.
(Original post by Arran90)
There was a recruitment drive for black (Jamaican?) police officers by the Metropolitan Police back in the 1980s, following either the Brixton or the Tottenham riots, as a result of police chiefs believing that black Jamaicans are more likely to respect and obey a black police officer than a white British police officer and it will ultimately reduce the levels of crime committed by black Jamaicans, who at the time were the difficult and challenging ethnic group.
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Arran90
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#40
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#40
(Original post by aa-k)
I would understand if there was evidence and research behind it, but it is simply a belief.
It was a belief of (white British) police chiefs from the Met, but given the arduous situation at the time in London and no realistic way of researching the subject, then the only choice they had was one of suck it and see. It's possible that the police chiefs tried to glean some information from the US about the effects of black police officers in heavily black areas but I have no knowledge whether they did this or not.

It was the BNP who suggested the black (Jamaican?) schools back in the 1990s but history has shown that there isn't much public demand for them whereas there is plenty of public demand for Muslim schools.

Going back to post #31, what exactly do black Jamaican students and their parents want out of state schools?
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