Hate CBT.Am I the only one who found it useless? Watch

Anonymous #1
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I don't have much thoughts so I don't see how the whole how you think is how you feel theory applied to me at all.I had 14 sessions which was a total waste of time.I have never heard so much nonsense e.g. punch a pillow.Medicine have done so much for me compared to CBT.Their whole theory about sleep hygiene is absolute doesn't work imo.Antipsychotics and sleeping pills sorted out my sleep once and for all.

Mental illness is very complex and I think CBT really oversimplifies mental illness.Am I the only one who thinks this?
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JackBrook
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The basis of CBT is to break up dangerous habitual thought patterns by applying logic.

For example, if you were bullied as a child and this has made you socially anxious, the purpose of CBT is to train you to interrupt that thought process by applying logic such as 'people don't bully me anymore, and only exposure to this social situation will help me conquer my irrational fear'.

For people that suffer from anger problems, punching a pillow is a way to release that overwhelming feeling of uncontrollable aggression in a non-harmful way before applying sound logic to the problem being faced. Over time, you will see results from applying this logic to situations and eventually you will not feel the compulsion to become aggressive or violent in the moment. It is a gradual process of improvement.

You mention that your medication has done a lot for you, and that's fine. For some people, medication works and I am not qualified to disagree with any prescription. However, it's worth remembering that humans only find meaning and purpose in the struggles of life, and by simply drugging ourselves into a faux happiness we lose this. It makes life miserable in the long run for many people.

(Original post by Anonymous)
I don't have much thoughts so I don't see how the whole how you think is how you feel theory applied to me at all.I had 14 sessions which was a total waste of time.I have never heard so much nonsense e.g. punch a pillow.Medicine have done so much for me compared to CBT.Their whole theory about sleep hygiene is absolute doesn't work imo.Antipsychotics and sleeping pills sorted out my sleep once and for all.

Mental illness is very complex and I think CBT really oversimplifies mental illness.Am I the only one who thinks this?
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by JackBrook)
The basis of CBT is to break up dangerous habitual thought patterns by applying logic.

For example, if you were bullied as a child and this has made you socially anxious, the purpose of CBT is to train you to interrupt that thought process by applying logic such as 'people don't bully me anymore, and only exposure to this social situation will help me conquer my irrational fear'.

For people that suffer from anger problems, punching a pillow is a way to release that overwhelming feeling of uncontrollable aggression in a non-harmful way before applying sound logic to the problem being faced. Over time, you will see results from applying this logic to situations and eventually you will not feel the compulsion to become aggressive or violent in the moment. It is a gradual process of improvement.

You mention that your medication has done a lot for you, and that's fine. For some people, medication works and I am not qualified to disagree with any prescription. However, it's worth remembering that humans only find meaning and purpose in the struggles of life, and by simply drugging ourselves into a faux happiness we lose this. It makes life miserable in the long run for many people.
The thing is I don't have many thoughts and I feel sad for no reason I don't feel sad because I think something.If anything I feel my strained relationships with people is what really effects me.I didn't find the solutions proposed in CBT of any help and I didn't really like my therapist she was nice but we didn't see eye to eye on things.Also it is a bit undignified for others to try and solve our problems we need to find the answers within ourselves.It is better to be sedated by medicine than to have to be losing it every single moment or be overwhelmed with suicidal thoughts or something like that.Medicine does its job especially sleeping aids (prescribed) the over the counter thing is as good as a sugar pill.
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JackBrook
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I think it's very likely you are miguided about the point I've highlighted in bold. It seems like a very naive viewpoint. How old are you?

Look, if you don't want to engage with the treatment recommended by medical professionals, that is ultimately your choice. But in all likelihood you probably won't get better.
(Original post by Anonymous)
The thing is I don't have many thoughts and I feel sad for no reason I don't feel sad because I think something.If anything I feel my strained relationships with people is what really effects me.I didn't find the solutions proposed in CBT of any help and I didn't really like my therapist she was nice but we didn't see eye to eye on things.Also it is a bit undignified for others to try and solve our problems we need to find the answers within ourselves.It is better to be sedated by medicine than to have to be losing it every single moment or be overwhelmed with suicidal thoughts or something like that.Medicine does its job especially sleeping aids (prescribed) the over the counter thing is as good as a sugar pill.
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I don't have much thoughts so I don't see how the whole how you think is how you feel theory applied to me at all.I had 14 sessions which was a total waste of time.I have never heard so much nonsense e.g. punch a pillow.Medicine have done so much for me compared to CBT.Their whole theory about sleep hygiene is absolute doesn't work imo.Antipsychotics and sleeping pills sorted out my sleep once and for all.

Mental illness is very complex and I think CBT really oversimplifies mental illness.Am I the only one who thinks this?
CBT doesn't work for everyone. I had it for about 14 weeks and if I'm honest I felt it was a little bit useless. they also says during CBT you get worse before you get better. I am glad I went CBT now, because I cried a lot during it and felt like I got a lot of things of my chest. One think I didn't like about it is that they try to change or challenge thoughts by making them right, and at the time I was suffering badly, and assumed it was OCD. I never said anything but reading up about it made me realize that I wasnt supposed to change or challenge my thoughts but to accept them, allow and let them pass. which has helped a lot. If you want any self help I recommend trying to meditate on apps like headspace for 10 minutes a day, at first it's hard but it gets easier and is calming. Or try yoga, there are loads of YouTube videos our there. these are my key go to things if I have anxiety or am stressed. xx
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JackBrook
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(Original post by Anonymous)
CBT doesn't work for everyone. I had it for about 14 weeks and if I'm honest I felt it was a little bit useless. they also says during CBT you get worse before you get better. I am glad I went CBT now, because I cried a lot during it and felt like I got a lot of things of my chest. One think I didn't like about it is that they try to change or challenge thoughts by making them right, and at the time I was suffering badly, and assumed it was OCD. I never said anything but reading up about it made me realize that I wasnt supposed to change or challenge my thoughts but to accept them, allow and let them pass. which has helped a lot. If you want any self help I recommend trying to meditate on apps like headspace for 10 minutes a day, at first it's hard but it gets easier and is calming. Or try yoga, there are loads of YouTube videos our there. these are my key go to things if I have anxiety or am stressed. xx
Well it depends on what difficulties you're experiencing. FWIW I don't think we're talking cross purposes.

To 'accept them, allow and let them pass' is the same as the process of CBT, which is to explore the route cause of the negative thoughts/behaviours, accept why they are now irrational and to move forwards with a more positive outlook.

The worst thing you can do with certain mental health issues is to accept that they are just 'part of you' and to let them continue to manifest. If you want to get better you need to challenge these behaviours and thoughts otherwise they will spiral out of control.

Of course it doesn't apply to everyone. If you're a schizophrenic with a genuine chemical imbalance then better to Lithium based medication to allow yourself to live in rational headspace than to suffer with trying to think your way out of it. But cases such as those are really rare, and shouldn't be used as precedent to just drug people into happiness.
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TheAnxiousSloth
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I can see where you are coming from. I have often thought that common therapy practices like CBT tend to turn the "blame" onto the patient- implying they must be doing something wrong and it is their fault they are mentally ill. For example, a psychologist once told me I was being irrational thinking that if I walked into a room full of people, they'd laugh at me. But the reality was, people DID laugh at me when I walked pretty much anywhere at school. That s*** hurt.

I've also found medication extremely helpful. When I was at crisis point, antidepressants, propranalol and diazepam were the only things that got me through and made each day more bearable. However, now I'm in a more "stable" place and having therapy for people with complex psychological needs (i.e. schema therapy, DBT, EDMR etc), which is so much more helpful. That's the thing with CBT- it is only really helpful for mild psychological problems, not severe or complex ones.

If you are experiencing an absence of thoughts, maybe you are "zoning out"? Or better ways to describe that are dissociation, depersonalization, desensitisation etc. It is worth researching those terms to see if you can relate.
Even experiencing low mood without any known cause implies there may be a biological problem, which may be why medication has helped so much.
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JackBrook
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(Original post by TheAnxiousSloth)
I can see where you are coming from. I have often thought that common therapy practices like CBT tend to turn the "blame" onto the patient- implying they must be doing something wrong and it is their fault they are mentally ill. For example, a psychologist once told me I was being irrational thinking that if I walked into a room full of people, they'd laugh at me. But the reality was, people DID laugh at me when I walked pretty much anywhere at school. That s*** hurt.

I've also found medication extremely helpful. When I was at crisis point, antidepressants, propranalol and diazepam were the only things that got me through and made each day more bearable. However, now I'm in a more "stable" place and having therapy for people with complex psychological needs (i.e. schema therapy, DBT, EDMR etc), which is so much more helpful. That's the thing with CBT- it is only really helpful for mild psychological problems, not severe or complex ones.

If you are experiencing an absence of thoughts, maybe you are "zoning out"? Or better ways to describe that are dissociation, depersonalization, desensitisation etc. It is worth researching those terms to see if you can relate.
Even experiencing low mood without any known cause implies there may be a biological problem, which may be why medication has helped so much.
There's nothing wrong with taking personal responsibility for your mental health issues.
No one is 'blaming you' for feeling bad, they are simply making you understand that to get better you need to challenge irrational beliefs.

Take, for instance, someone that is a victim of childhood sexual abuse. As an adult, they might become withdrawn, lack intimacy and struggle to express emotions. Now of course, it hurts for someone to say 'this is irrational behaviour, you can open up' because your brain is telling you that keeping yourself to yourself is a way of avoiding suffering. For a while, as a child, it may have been a useful behaviour. But not as an adult.

Now that doesn't mean the psychologist or counsellor giving you this advice is blaming you for anything. You developed these behaviours as a child, and they are heavily influenced by the immoral acts of others.

But to move on and to move forward, you need to challenge and change these behaviours regardless of whose fault it is.

Victimhood is not virtuous.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by TheAnxiousSloth)
I can see where you are coming from. I have often thought that common therapy practices like CBT tend to turn the "blame" onto the patient- implying they must be doing something wrong and it is their fault they are mentally ill. For example, a psychologist once told me I was being irrational thinking that if I walked into a room full of people, they'd laugh at me. But the reality was, people DID laugh at me when I walked pretty much anywhere at school. That s*** hurt.

I've also found medication extremely helpful. When I was at crisis point, antidepressants, propranalol and diazepam were the only things that got me through and made each day more bearable. However, now I'm in a more "stable" place and having therapy for people with complex psychological needs (i.e. schema therapy, DBT, EDMR etc), which is so much more helpful. That's the thing with CBT- it is only really helpful for mild psychological problems, not severe or complex ones.

If you are experiencing an absence of thoughts, maybe you are "zoning out"? Or better ways to describe that are dissociation, depersonalization, desensitisation etc. It is worth researching those terms to see if you can relate.
Even experiencing low mood without any known cause implies there may be a biological problem, which may be why medication has helped so much.
I feel like many of my problems stem from having a very lonely and isolated childhood, I was quite bullied and I have autism also (only diagnosed very recently) I feel like cbt has made me feel like what I think and feel is invalid despite having proof. They just didn't seem to understand my problems and over simplify everything. I have very severe depression that has been lasting for 2 years now. I don't think cbt even scratches the surface of what my problem is and I always felt shushed and told we need to get on with therapy and there is no time for taking about how much of a horrible day I had or how much I am worried about x. I felt like the therapist was more interested in recording the sessions to write their PhD dissertation than helping me.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by JackBrook)
There's nothing wrong with taking personal responsibility for your mental health issues.
No one is 'blaming you' for feeling bad, they are simply making you understand that to get better you need to challenge irrational beliefs.

Take, for instance, someone that is a victim of childhood sexual abuse. As an adult, they might become withdrawn, lack intimacy and struggle to express emotions. Now of course, it hurts for someone to say 'this is irrational behaviour, you can open up' because your brain is telling you that keeping yourself to yourself is a way of avoiding suffering. For a while, as a child, it may have been a useful behaviour. But not as an adult.

Now that doesn't mean the psychologist or counsellor giving you this advice is blaming you for anything. You developed these behaviours as a child, and they are heavily influenced by the immoral acts of others.

But to move on and to move forward, you need to challenge and change these behaviours regardless of whose fault it is.

Victimhood is not virtuous.
I don't think anyone telling me to change my thoughts about a strong conviction I have held for years because it isn't anyways true didn't help. I don't trust men because I was abandoned by my dad and emotionally abused by my mums ex boyfriend. Just because not all men are bad won't mean I will suddenly trust men. I have this strong conviction because I was incredibly hurt and to undo years of suffering with 6 hours of therapy (6 weeks of cbt is usually offered) won't happen.
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marinade
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I don't have much thoughts so I don't see how the whole how you think is how you feel theory applied to me at all.I had 14 sessions which was a total waste of time.I have never heard so much nonsense e.g. punch a pillow.Medicine have done so much for me compared to CBT.Their whole theory about sleep hygiene is absolute doesn't work imo.Antipsychotics and sleeping pills sorted out my sleep once and for all.

Mental illness is very complex and I think CBT really oversimplifies mental illness.Am I the only one who thinks this?
I would say it's a marmite therapy. Some people think it's amazing, some hate it.

I do think there are very large problems in terms of the lack of support and funding for other therapies (or number of therapists in some cases). There's this huge expectation built up where someone hears about CBT (or is not keen on medication) so has this massive unhelpful expectation in their head.

I would say that CBT is is drive through therapy. Others would say the version of CBT done by many CCGs is a very watered down one. NHS guidance is up to 20 sessions of CBT, not 6 which is also what's often given around here. CBT is but one of several approved therapies on the NHS, nothing particularly special about it. Others would say that no, no, it is teaching you 'tools' and incredibly cost effective and able to reach people that it wouldn't as it would be impossible to fund other therapies.

I also think there's a big problem in language used by the NHS. The mild to moderate and moderate to severe terminology as perceived by the public and communicated by the NHS. I'm not a clinician, but I've met a large body of people who seem to be more moderate to severe, they go off to IAPT, they get a load of promises and then the 1-1 disappears and they are put on the 'low intensity' courses intended for mild to moderate anxiety. You do seriously wonder. My experiences are similar having previously been labelled 'mild' by counsellors when I was much worse than today.

The Nadiya Anxiety and Me program last week quoted the advisor to the NHS on anxiety that for depression health professionals spotted it in about 70% of people (ever), whereas for anxiety the figure was 20%. That would suggest an extremely major problem in the NHS of spotting anxiety and would lead me to question whether the strategy of low intensity CBT for the masses would be able to be given to the right people.
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TheAnxiousSloth
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A therapist shouldn't make you feel shushed- they are there to listen to you. There are various types of therapy out there so don't be disheartened that CBT didn't help you. (Maybe it would have helped if you had a better therapist!)

You might find interpersonal therapy more helpful: "IPT is a talking treatment that helps people with depression identify and address problems in their relationships with family, partners and friends.
The idea is that poor relationships with people in your life can leave you feeling depressed.
Depression can in turn make your relationships with other people worse.
You may be offered IPT if you have severe depression or depression that hasn't responded to other talking therapies, such as CBT.
IPT is usually offered over 16 to 20 sessions."

You are right that CBT barely scratches the surface.


(Original post by Anonymous)
I feel like many of my problems stem from having a very lonely and isolated childhood, I was quite bullied and I have autism also (only diagnosed very recently) I feel like cbt has made me feel like what I think and feel is invalid despite having proof. They just didn't seem to understand my problems and over simplify everything. I have very severe depression that has been lasting for 2 years now. I don't think cbt even scratches the surface of what my problem is and I always felt shushed and told we need to get on with therapy and there is no time for taking about how much of a horrible day I had or how much I am worried about x. I felt like the therapist was more interested in recording the sessions to write their PhD dissertation than helping me.
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TheAnxiousSloth
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A therapist shouldn't make you feel shushed- they are there to listen to you. There are various types of therapy out there so don't be disheartened that CBT didn't help you. (Maybe it would have helped if you had a better therapist!)

You might find interpersonal therapy more helpful: "IPT is a talking treatment that helps people with depression identify and address problems in their relationships with family, partners and friends.
The idea is that poor relationships with people in your life can leave you feeling depressed.
Depression can in turn make your relationships with other people worse.
You may be offered IPT if you have severe depression or depression that hasn't responded to other talking therapies, such as CBT.
IPT is usually offered over 16 to 20 sessions."

You are right that CBT barely scratches the surface.


(Original post by Anonymous)
I feel like many of my problems stem from having a very lonely and isolated childhood, I was quite bullied and I have autism also (only diagnosed very recently) I feel like cbt has made me feel like what I think and feel is invalid despite having proof. They just didn't seem to understand my problems and over simplify everything. I have very severe depression that has been lasting for 2 years now. I don't think cbt even scratches the surface of what my problem is and I always felt shushed and told we need to get on with therapy and there is no time for taking about how much of a horrible day I had or how much I am worried about x. I felt like the therapist was more interested in recording the sessions to write their PhD dissertation than helping me.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by marinade)
I would say it's a marmite therapy. Some people think it's amazing, some hate it.

I do think there are very large problems in terms of the lack of support and funding for other therapies (or number of therapists in some cases). There's this huge expectation built up where someone hears about CBT (or is not keen on medication) so has this massive unhelpful expectation in their head.

I would say that CBT is is drive through therapy. Others would say the version of CBT done by many CCGs is a very watered down one. NHS guidance is up to 20 sessions of CBT, not 6 which is also what's often given around here. CBT is but one of several approved therapies on the NHS, nothing particularly special about it. Others would say that no, no, it is teaching you 'tools' and incredibly cost effective and able to reach people that it wouldn't as it would be impossible to fund other therapies.

I also think there's a big problem in language used by the NHS. The mild to moderate and moderate to severe terminology as perceived by the public and communicated by the NHS. I'm not a clinician, but I've met a large body of people who seem to be more moderate to severe, they go off to IAPT, they get a load of promises and then the 1-1 disappears and they are put on the 'low intensity' courses intended for mild to moderate anxiety. You do seriously wonder. My experiences are similar having previously been labelled 'mild' by counsellors when I was much worse than today.

The Nadiya Anxiety and Me program last week quoted the advisor to the NHS on anxiety that for depression health professionals spotted it in about 70% of people (ever), whereas for anxiety the figure was 20%. That would suggest an extremely major problem in the NHS of spotting anxiety and would lead me to question whether the strategy of low intensity CBT for the masses would be able to be given to the right people.
I was offered 14 sessions of CBT.The therapist clearly knew it didn't help me much but because I turned 18 they referred me to the adult service but the adult service rejected my request for more therapy.I wanted to have IPT but I don't know how to access it as the adult service in my area said there is only CBT and counselling.I am still suffering with depression and will see my psychiatrist on the weekend.I feel like the NHS doesn't care if you don't feel great mentally unless you try and commit suicide, harm yourself or others.I don't feel like it is acceptable to live a life where you feel incredibly down.
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random_matt
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Statistics show it has a very poor long term application, a lot of people eventually end up just as bad as ones who did not partake in it in the first place. Therapists love their money and cannot wait to see you again.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by TheAnxiousSloth)
A therapist shouldn't make you feel shushed- they are there to listen to you. There are various types of therapy out there so don't be disheartened that CBT didn't help you. (Maybe it would have helped if you had a better therapist!)

You might find interpersonal therapy more helpful: "IPT is a talking treatment that helps people with depression identify and address problems in their relationships with family, partners and friends.
The idea is that poor relationships with people in your life can leave you feeling depressed.
Depression can in turn make your relationships with other people worse.
You may be offered IPT if you have severe depression or depression that hasn't responded to other talking therapies, such as CBT.
IPT is usually offered over 16 to 20 sessions."

You are right that CBT barely scratches the surface.
I haven't been able to access any therapy or help in the adult service.I made an application couple months ago for more therapy (the only offered CBT or counselling) but my request was denied.I don't know if they offer IPT in my area.I am reluctant to go through the whole process again (go to GP ask them to refer me and then wait for so long).I don't know what to do as depression has ruined my academic life and has made 2 years of my life so miserable but seeking help is so hard and very long.
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random_matt
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I was offered 14 sessions of CBT.The therapist clearly knew it didn't help me much but because I turned 18 they referred me to the adult service but the adult service rejected my request for more therapy.I wanted to have IPT but I don't know how to access it as the adult service in my area said there is only CBT and counselling.I am still suffering with depression and will see my psychiatrist on the weekend.I feel like the NHS doesn't care if you don't feel great mentally unless you try and commit suicide, harm yourself or others.I don't feel like it is acceptable to live a life where you feel incredibly down.
You could try CBM, more or less looks at attenuation levels.
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Anonymous #1
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I swear CBM helps only abroad in deprived areas?
(Original post by random_matt)
You could try CBM, more or less looks at attenuation levels.
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random_matt
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I swear CBM helps only abroad in deprived areas?
Erm, stands for cognitive behaviour modification, you can even get in an app. Highly effective, as I said it more or less looks at attenuation of attentional biases, I can link you a research paper if you would like, highly interesting.
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Anonymous #3
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I've had CBT several times and found it to be a bit of a mix... sometimes it can be helpful, more in the way it challenges you to think a little differently. But I've also had bad experiences with it, and I think the main problem is that a lot of the therapists seem to be trained in a specific way and lack a 'Plan B' when their usual approach doesn't suit the situation.

For example, one latched onto the fact my parents split up when I was younger and decided that was the cause of my problems (depression). It wasn't, at all, but Training Manual 1 had obviously told him that family breakups = mental health problems. Just wouldn't drop it, kept pushing aside what I was saying and insisting that was the problem and I needed to work around that, and that the actual stuff that I was talking about wasn't important...
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