Your view on Nigel Farage. Watch

DallasJ21
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#81
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#81
People also voted LD’s, Greens, Change UK and SNP, alll remain parties. They also got more than UKIP and BP, combined. Is that not a vote against leaving the EU?
(Original post by LManchesterL)
Totally agree.

People voted to leave therefore we should leave.
People voted the Brexit Party to leave, therefore we should leave.

I don't get how that isn't enough for people.
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IWMTom
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#82
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(Original post by mgi)
Yes you can. The tories are in power with a similar figure; no one seems to notice! The remainers got less votes but don't like it. Leave means leave.
No. Leave means look into the feasibility of carrying out the referendum (which of course was only advisory). Now that the full facts are out, the country has changed its mind.

You haven't, because you're either uneducated or a troll. Haven't quite decided which yet.
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fallen_acorns
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#83
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(Original post by IWMTom)
It's not misleading, pal, it's fact. Constitutional changes should require a majority of the electorate to vote for it. Blame Cameron for not introducing safeguards to the non-binding referendum.

Leaving the EU is akin to running head first into a lamp post.
(Original post by IWMTom)
You can't claim it's the "voice of the people" and that "the majority of the country want to leave" when, as I said, only just over a third voted for it.
A key concept in our democracy is the right to abstain. By abstaining, you void your say and are not counted in the result, hence it is not appropriate to include them in the results, to either side's proportion of the vote seem smaller.

Its worth noting, that if removing us from the EU is constitutional change and as such requires a majority of the electorate, then joining would also be constitutional change and require the same. During the referendum on whether it was right to join the EU in 1975, by your measurement only 42% of the electorate thought it was right to join, and as such we should have never joined in the first place.

Actual majorities, by the electorate as a whole, are not how our democratic system works. Even blairs landslide win in 1997, one of the biggest democratic success in modern history, came about as he managed the unbelievable result of 29% of the total electorate.

There are many great arguments against leaving the EU, and against upholding the result of the first referendum.. but the fact that only 37% of the total possible electorate voted for it is not one of them, and shows a deeply flawed understanding of how our democracy works.
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fallen_acorns
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#84
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(Original post by IWMTom)
No. Leave means look into the feasibility of carrying out the referendum
That is also simply not true.

Leave means: (taken from the question asked dirrectly to the people)

"(The UK should) leave the European Union."

It doesn't mean “The UK should Consider leaving the european union.

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As for your point about it being advisory. Yes technically you are correct, however practically speaking it makes no difference. The referendum result is now complimented by a direct mandate in the form of a general election, where both the government and the opposition were elected on manifestos that included leaving the EU. Can both referendum results and manifesto promises be broken? yes - technically they both can.. should they be broken? That depends how far you want to push peoples trust our democratic processes.
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mgi
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#85
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(Original post by IWMTom)
No. Leave means look into the feasibility of carrying out the referendum (which of course was only advisory). Now that the full facts are out, the country has changed its mind.

You haven't, because you're either uneducated or a troll. Haven't quite decided which yet.
Uk voted to leave the EU not to investigate the possibility or feasibility. That is your phrasing, not what was written on the referendum voting slip.
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fallen_acorns
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#86
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(Original post by DallasJ21)
People also voted LD’s, Greens, Change UK and SNP, alll remain parties. They also got more than UKIP and BP, combined. Is that not a vote against leaving the EU?
Only if you conveniantly pretend that the two main parties don't both support brexit, or you pretend that voters of the two main parties don't on the whole support brexit. Given that its impossible to conclude either of those things, its best not to draw any conclusions about weather the election was a victory for brexit or remain.
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DallasJ21
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#87
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If you haven’t changed your mind over Brexit in the last 3 years, then can I ask. Why not?
(Original post by mgi)
Uk voted to leave the EU not to investigate the possibility or feasibility. That is your phrasing, not what was written on the referendum voting slip.
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mgi
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#88
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Only if you conveniantly pretend that the two main parties don't both support brexit, or you pretend that voters of the two main parties don't on the whole support brexit. Given that its impossible to conclude either of those things, its best not to draw any conclusions about weather the election was a victory for brexit or remain.
Also , the Brexit Party policy is very explicit. Leave the EU now. That is not exactly what the other parties are saying. They have other policies that peoole may also be voting about such as climate change. So their totals cant just be added up so simply anyway.
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Gcsefailure7776
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#89
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#89
Makes people believe we need change so his extreme ideas seem reasonable. Fair play to him as he's good at what he does but overall a bit of a cnut 🤷🏻*♀️
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mgi
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#90
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(Original post by DallasJ21)
If you haven’t changed your mind over Brexit in the last 3 years, then can I ask. Why not?
Quite simply what has changed that i didnt know when i voted first time? Thr evidence is the same. So I still think leave the Eu, maintain sovereignty as an independent nation. MPs now trying to reverse the Referendum result. Not trustworthy. Scaremongering!
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random_matt
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#91
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#91
He is AAA, no other politician is.
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DallasJ21
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#92
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#92
Okay, so despite the fact that we don’t actually give £350m to the EU, that has not changed your mind? The fact we don’t have to take in asylum seekers, unlike what was suggested by Farage. The fact we do have control of our borders, despite the total opposite being said by Farage. The fact that it’s totally moronic to leave under WTO terms, given no other country does it except one that has 1% of the GDP of the UK and the fact that we make FTA so that we don’t have to trade under WTO terms. None of that has changed your mind? I mean, about “sovereignty”, you do understand that we implement very few EU laws and we also have the European Parliament which we vote our own members into and can veto legislation. Really? You haven’t changed your mind? Then I really wonder why you wish to leave.
(Original post by mgi)
Quite simply what has changed that i didnt know when i voted first time? Thr evidence is the same. So I still think leave the Eu, maintain sovereignty as an independent nation. MPs now trying to reverse the Referendum result. Not trustworthy. Scaremongering!
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IWMTom
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#93
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(Original post by DallasJ21)
Okay, so despite the fact that we don’t actually give £350m to the EU, that has not changed your mind? The fact we don’t have to take in asylum seekers, unlike what was suggested by Farage. The fact we do have control of our borders, despite the total opposite being said by Farage. The fact that it’s totally moronic to leave under WTO terms, given no other country does it except one that has 1% of the GDP of the UK and the fact that we make FTA so that we don’t have to trade under WTO terms. None of that has changed your mind? I mean, about “sovereignty”, you do understand that we implement very few EU laws and we also have the European Parliament which we vote our own members into and can veto legislation. Really? You haven’t changed your mind? Then I really wonder why you wish to leave.
You can't argue with stupid, mate. We've been around this circle plenty of times - save your breath.
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mgi
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#94
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(Original post by DallasJ21)
Okay, so despite the fact that we don’t actually give £350m to the EU, that has not changed your mind? The fact we don’t have to take in asylum seekers, unlike what was suggested by Farage. The fact we do have control of our borders, despite the total opposite being said by Farage. The fact that it’s totally moronic to leave under WTO terms, given no other country does it except one that has 1% of the GDP of the UK and the fact that we make FTA so that we don’t have to trade under WTO terms. None of that has changed your mind? I mean, about “sovereignty”, you do understand that we implement very few EU laws and we also have the European Parliament which we vote our own members into and can veto legislation. Really? You haven’t changed your mind? Then I really wonder why you wish to leave.
None of what you said has made me change my mind just like many leavers. Brexit has shown us that our regular politicians are not easy to trust. They don't care about the common people. its time for some new politics starting with implementation of what the referendum result told us to do. Border controls are what every country does.
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DallasJ21
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#95
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So, you can’t actually argue for Brexit you just know that you want it, that’s it. That’s what the leave argument has came to.
(Original post by mgi)
None of what you said has made me change my mind just like many leavers. Brexit has shown us that our regular politicians are not easy to trust. They don't care about the common people. its time for some new politics starting with implementation of what the referendum result told us to do. Border controls are what every country does.
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DallasJ21
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#96
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True, but it’s hard. All leave voters want now is to leave, they can’t argue Brexit and even the recent EU elections prove how divided the leave camp is. Some want No Deal, some only want to leave with a deal Etc. They’ll just say they want Brexit because they voted for it, I suppose all we can say now is that “we told you so”.
(Original post by IWMTom)
You can't argue with stupid, mate. We've been around this circle plenty of times - save your breath.
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velocemente
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#97
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#97
Absolute pillock that stands for nothing but his own personal gain
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mgi
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#98
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(Original post by DallasJ21)
So, you can’t actually argue for Brexit you just know that you want it, that’s it. That’s what the leave argument has came to.
The remain argument is very similar to the one you just levelled at leavers. Most remainers have not read the withdrawal agreement- they just know what they know and don't want to leave the EU. How many remainers are economists?
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DallasJ21
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#99
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No it’s not, the remain argument is far more than that. It’s the 50+ countries we’ll lose trade deals with if we leave, what country has ever just scrapped all their FTA’s overnight? I ask, do you genuinely believe leaving on WTO terms will be a success?
(Original post by mgi)
The remain argument is very similar to the one you just levelled at leavers. Most remainers have not read the withdrawal agreement- they just know what they know and don't want to leave the EU. How many remainers are economists?
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DallasJ21
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#100
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Perfect, the thing that got me was that he said if Brexit is a failure, which it’s nailed on to be, he’ll just move to Germany. What has that man got to lose from Brexit? How many other Brits can say they can just leave if Brexit fails?
(Original post by velocemente)
Absolute pillock that stands for nothing but his own personal gain
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