Do employers really think people with first class degrees have no social life? Watch

JohanGRK
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Wired_1800)
But it still counts as experience over another person with no experience. When you compare those without relevant experience with those with relevant experience. Surely, the relevant experience should count more.

Some universities don't have regular assessments like I pointed out. So yes, your undergraduate degree is down to how lucky you are in two weeks of your final year of study.
Everyone has experience, and grad rec have given me the impression that some of it should be law-related. All this does is narrow the pool a bit more. But, again, you'll still get tonnes of 2:1-at-a-good-uni-with-some-relevant-work-experience graduates, so why take the risk?

Oxford has prelims. All other law degrees in the UK are moving (somewhat begrudgingly) to mixed forms of assessment and assess candidates over three years. Many (e.g. your BELOVED MANCHESTER!!!) have January exams. And, even at Oxford, I think that 2/9 of your modules can be coursework-related. So Jacob would need a good excuse for doing badly in prelims and in those and in the final exams.
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Wired_1800
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#42
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(Original post by J-SP)
If I block someone on TSR, they shouldn’t be able to quote you. I have now had to unblock you just to respond to something you keep banging on about with little to no insight about....

He won’t be doing “decent” placements at a MC firm without a 2.1. His first year’s work experience pre uni is practically meaningless. It doesn’t equate to him being able to get a training contract.

Yes, Oxford don’t assess formally until final year. However, you do mock assessments before then and your academic tutors provide you with grades and predicted grades based on your essays and seminar performances. There are also pre lim and mod assessments pre final year, they just don’t go towards the final grade.

He wouldn’t be taken on a vacation scheme without achieving a 2.1 in his first year.
Ok, let’s assume he does achieve the 2.1 and bags the vacation scheme for both years, then ends up with a 3rd. Do you still punish someone with relevant experience?

I agree that I am not a recruiter, but I am trying to understand the reasoning behind such restrictions. Yes, attitude can play a part in poor performance but there are people who have the right attitude and still do poorly in their examinations. Not everyone is a test taker.
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hello_shawn
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#43
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#43
If you have a first class degree and nothing else, then yeah it's easy for employers to come to that conclusion. Employers expect to hire the best candidates so candidates must have more than just a degree to their names
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Wired_1800
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#44
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Everyone has experience, and grad rec have given me the impression that some of it should be law-related. All this does is narrow the pool a bit more. But, again, you'll still get tonnes of 2:1-at-a-good-uni-with-some-relevant-work-experience graduates, so why take the risk?

Oxford has prelims. All other law degrees in the UK are moving (somewhat begrudgingly) to mixed forms of assessment and assess candidates over three years. Many (e.g. your BELOVED MANCHESTER!!!) have January exams. And, even at Oxford, I think that 2/9 of your modules can be coursework-related. So Jacob would need a good excuse for doing badly in prelims and in those and in the final exams.
The experience can be subjective and, like I wrote before, Jacob’s could be really relevant esp with experience in the MC set.
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JohanGRK
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#45
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
The experience can be subjective and, like I wrote before, Jacob’s could be really relevant esp with experience in the MC set.
Good, so you've finally resorted to using vague language - what on earth is 'subjective work experience'?

You don't need MC experience to get an MC TC (or any TC). The most it can tell a recruiter at another firm is that you did well at the assessment stage of the MC firm. And, in the real world, MC experience either involves paralegalling (which is valuable but which is something you're not talking about even though it could help your case) or sitting around drinking iced lattes at Silks or whatever the cafe at A&O is called in order to fill time until you're allowed to leave at 5:30.
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Wired_1800
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#46
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#46
H
(Original post by J-SP)
The person with “no experience” wouldn’t be hired either. There is no decision between one or the other - neither would be successful.
(Original post by J-SP)
I explained this. That would happen if either extenuating circumstances were present OR if they had a change in attitude. Extenuating circumstances mean this conversation is null and void. A change in attitude wouldn’t be acceptable.
So you dont hire 1st class graduates with no relevant experience? This is interesting.
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Wired_1800
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#47
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(Original post by J-SP)
MCs are firms not sets....

They won’t have relevant experience. That won’t have happened until they are a qualified lawyer...
That is fair. So those UG students who are in MC firms are not gaining relevant experience?
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Admit-One
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#48
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#48
Somewhere that requires a 1st for consideration isn't going to give two hoots about your social life.
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Wired_1800
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#49
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Good, so you've finally resorted to using vague language - what on earth is 'subjective work experience'?

You don't need MC experience to get an MC TC (or any TC). The most it can tell a recruiter at another firm is that you did well at the assessment stage of the MC firm. And, in the real world, MC experience either involves paralegalling (which is valuable but which is something you're not talking about even though it could help your case) or sitting around drinking iced lattes at Silks or whatever the cafe at A&O is called in order to fill time until you're allowed to leave at 5:30.
I am talking about all relevant experience. Experience is subjective because a UG at Freshfields will surely have a different experience to another person at A&O or Linklaters.

Yes, you dont have to have MC experience to gain an MC TC, but having one will surely help your case. Else, what is the point.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by J-SP)
You are now interchanging experience and relevant experience to try and make a point.

Someone with no work experience (ever) is unlikely to be hired.

Most applicants (whether successful or not) do not have relevant experience.
No, I started with relevant experience and still maintain relevant experience. I am saying someone like Jacob with an experience at A&O during his UG career.
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Wired_1800
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#51
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(Original post by J-SP)
Not to the law firm, no. They can’t be charged out on billable hours.

They won’t have relevant experience until they start working as a trainee...

How many times do I have to say this to you....
So their time in the MC during their UG career is useless?
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Wired_1800
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#52
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(Original post by J-SP)
FFS!

IT
IS
NOT
RELEVANT
EXPERIENCE!!!!

How simple can I put this for you... to become a solicitor you have to do a postgraduate course. To pass that course, you’d need to show your ability to perform reasonable well in your undergraduate degree....

If someone is not a test taker, they should choose a course that plays to their strengths. They would be pretty screwed trying to pass the LPC or SQE and that is the risk law firms are not willing to take.
Ok, I understand
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Wired_1800
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#53
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#53
(Original post by J-SP)
You are now interchanging useless and relevant....

Make yourself clear and I’ll happily continue this discussion
My point was what is the point of working in an MC during your UG when your experience cannot be categorised as having relevant work experience?
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Princepieman
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#54
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#54
(Original post by J-SP)
No.

But if all they have on their CV is a first class degree, then they could.
literally /endthread
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Wired_1800
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#55
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#55
(Original post by J-SP)
A&O have a condition in their employment contract where you need to obtain a 2.1 in your degree to be eligible for a training contract.

No matter what Jacob’s (fictional) experience, he won’t get past an application sift.
Ok, i understand. I think it is unfair even with an A&O experience he cannot get into A&O with a 3rd.
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Wired_1800
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#56
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#56
(Original post by J-SP)
Are you purposely this naive just to be abrasive?

There is a difference between what you gain as an individual that is of value to you, and what is of value to the organisation who will recruit you in the future.

Do me a favour, stop quoting me.
Ok, I will stop after this one on this thread.
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