Guardian University League tables 2020 - Notts Trent rules Watch

StarLinyx
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https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ue-tables-2020

Notts Trent is a leading UK university . . .
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StarLinyx
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Mods, please move this to the correct forum section. Thanks
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megascream
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LSE and UCL finally drop out of the top 15... Very well
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Altaic
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What information or facts do they even base these tables on? How can UCL drop so badly wtf
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04MR17
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(Original post by StarLinyx)
Mods, please move this to the correct forum section. Thanks
Not a mod but I'll get this moved to educational debate now.
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harrysbar
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Queen Mary's lower than LSB and other such nonsense, take with a pinch of salt
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Student-95
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Queen Mary's lower than LSB and other such nonsense, take with a pinch of salt
Why is it nonsense? I assume you have attended both Queen Mary's and LSB?
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Student-95)
Why is it nonsense? I assume you have attended both Queen Mary's and LSB?
Actually I did do my postgraduate diploma in careers guidance at LSB - it was an absolute dump
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harrysbar
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(Original post by J-SP)
See you are putting that diploma to good use...
I don't work as a careers adviser any more but yes, I did put it to good use for many years working as a careers adviser for A level students applying to uni, and the Guardian League table has always been seen as a particularly strange one
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winterscoming
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From the Guardian's description of what the rankings mean:
This guide is different from the other university guides you may have come across because it is aimed specifically at students who are trying to choose a course.

So it ranks universities on all the factors that are most important to young people: how much they will benefit from the teaching, whether current students like the university and the subject, and what their chances are of getting a good job. It does not include research scores, because these are of limited relevance to students.

It includes a score for the ratio between staff and students. And last year we introduced a continuation measure – this tells you what percentage of first-year students go into second year. It is a good indication of how successful the university is in supporting all students, including those who may be struggling.

All these measures are combined into a Guardian score out of 100 - and that’s what forms the basis of the ranking.
I'm sure there are probably countless flaws in whatever methodology they've used to arrive at some of these rankings, but on the other hand, there are clearly some very good ideas involved as well in terms of making the rankings more relevant to A-Level students who are about to decide which university to apply to.

Excluding research scores is a really good idea IMO, and looking at things like graduate employability as well as drop-out rate. Maybe this list is no better than any of the others, but I can't imagine it's any worse either.
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Student-95
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Actually I did do my postgraduate diploma in careers guidance at LSB - it was an absolute dump
And how long did you study at Queen Mary's?
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StarLinyx
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Queen Mary is considered as quite prestigious in academic circles. LSB is certainly not seen as good. The Guardian rankings are not taken seriously by leading schools, top universities, or leading employers. Aim to study at a traditional university, unless that is your course is only offered at an ex-polytechnic university.
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Themysticalegg
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Indeed all league tables are a bit weird but I think the Guardian is perceived as stranger due to people's perception of university 'prestige' or whatever which the CUG and Times shows better. For example people don't generally see KCL as a 63rd in the UK type university nor Lincoln at 17th. And I can see why these types of positions make people, especially on TSR butthurt. :rofl:
(Original post by J-SP)
All league tables are strange - the guardian is not unique in that.
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Max Kho
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(Original post by StarLinyx)
https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ue-tables-2020

Notts Trent is a leading UK university . . .
And above Nottingham University... 🤦*♂️
Also, apparently Nottingham University is the 35th best university in the country for maths 🤷*♂️
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DerivativeName
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But research significantly impacts on the quality of the course, the modules available, the academic environment etc etc. Being at a uni which is rated for research will really help students trying to get into academia- and university's are supposed to be academic institutions after all.


(Original post by winterscoming)
From the Guardian's description of what the rankings mean:

I'm sure there are probably countless flaws in whatever methodology they've used to arrive at some of these rankings, but on the other hand, there are clearly some very good ideas involved as well in terms of making the rankings more relevant to A-Level students who are about to decide which university to apply to.

Excluding research scores is a really good idea IMO, and looking at things like graduate employability as well as drop-out rate. Maybe this list is no better than any of the others, but I can't imagine it's any worse either.
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Student-95
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(Original post by DerivativeName)
But research significantly impacts on the quality of the course, the modules available, the academic environment etc etc. Being at a uni which is rated for research will really help students trying to get into academia- and university's are supposed to be academic institutions after all.

The majority of students don't go into research/academia though.
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megascream
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But prestige depends much more on academia, as academia has more connection with alumni network and employer reputation.
If the teaching/social is good while research is only slightly weaker, It's good to choose the weaker one. However, if the research gap is too large, better forget that.
Many people might choose Durham/St A over LSE due to their students satisfaction, but very very few people would choose Loughborough/ Lancaster over LSE. If a ranking is suggesting Loughborough/Lancaster is much better than London unis, it's definitely misleading.
(Original post by Student-95)
The majority of students don't go into research/academia though.
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Student-95
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(Original post by megascream)
But prestige depends much more on academia, as academia has more connection with alumni network and employer reputation.
If the teaching/social is good while research is only slightly weaker, It's good to choose the weaker one. However, if the research gap is too large, better forget that.
Many people might choose Durham/St A over LSE due to their students satisfaction, but very very few people would choose Loughborough/ Lancaster over LSE. If a ranking is suggesting Loughborough/Lancaster is much better than London unis, it's definitely misleading.
Depends on the industry. Loughborough is a very good choice if you're pursuing engineering and I'd choose it over the London unis.
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winterscoming
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(Original post by DerivativeName)
But research significantly impacts on the quality of the course, the modules available, the academic environment etc etc. Being at a uni which is rated for research will really help students trying to get into academia- and university's are supposed to be academic institutions after all.
If they want to get into academia then that's certainly true, but there's a lot of students for whom that isn't the case, and a lot of universities aren't just academic institutions but also have vocational degrees which are basically 3-year training courses for all kinds of skilled professional careers. In reality, many students are looking at their best chance at finding a job, but research generally doesn't have any impact on the teaching or content of vocational modules.
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megascream
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Yes, Loughborough is good, but still, not excellent. It can easily argue that imperial/UCL/Edinburgh and even Manchester is better than Loughborough in engineering. If you are choosing between Loughborough and Manchester, the teaching/social quality in Loughborough may surpass Manchester's research quality, but Imperial/UCL will clearly provide better chances than Loughborough, yet both two are lower than Loughborough in Guardian, which doesn't make any sense.
(Original post by Student-95)
Depends on the industry. Loughborough is a very good choice if you're pursuing engineering and I'd choose it over the London unis.
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