Boris Johnson Watch

mgi
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Should a man who makes all sorts of offensive and sometimes racist remarks become Prime minister?
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Ben 101601
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Yeah
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fallen_acorns
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Learn a lesson from trump.. if the lefts line of attack is that he is offensive and racist, it won't work at all.. attack him instead on his very questionable track record when in office, and the clear mistakes he has made.

His voter base don't care that he can be offensive, intact thats what a lot of them like.. go into the working class parts of the country and say "don't vote for him because he said X or y about Muslims.." and they will say great! We agree!

He has some very questuonable and dodgy mistakes in his past that can make for much better attacks, and raise many more questions about his ability to be the pm
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mgi
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(Original post by Ben 101601)
Yeah
Wow!
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mgi
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Learn a lesson from trump.. if the lefts line of attack is that he is offensive and racist, it won't work at all.. attack him instead on his very questionable track record when in office, and the clear mistakes he has made.

His voter base don't care that he can be offensive, intact thats what a lot of them like.. go into the working class parts of the country and say "don't vote for him because he said X or y about Muslims.." and they will say great! We agree!

He has some very questuonable and dodgy mistakes in his past that can make for much better attacks, and raise many more questions about his ability to be the pm
I suppose the UK is still prepared to turn a blind eye on occasions towards racism and repeated extra marital affairs. How the Tory party get away with this while people talk about antisemitism in the Labour i dont know.
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B3ar93
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I oddly feel like who ever is running his campaign took pointers from the Trump one. He is so very clearly a hypocritical liar who stands behind nothing, besides certain bigoted ideals. Like Trump, he appears so unintelligent, it makes you wonder how he even got to where he is.
I’d say, “No, anyone with sense wouldn’t vote for him” but then I said the same for Trump and that happened. I don’t see what others see in them, I just hear hate speech when they talk.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by B3ar93)
I oddly feel like who ever is running his campaign took pointers from the Trump one. He is so very clearly a hypocritical liar who stands behind nothing, besides certain bigoted ideals. Like Trump, he appears so unintelligent, it makes you wonder how he even got to where he is.
I’d say, “No, anyone with sense wouldn’t vote for him” but then I said the same for Trump and that happened. I don’t see what others see in them, I just hear hate speech when they talk.
You should try actually listening to them. I agree that both of them have said offensive things in the past, but if that's the majority of what your hearing, it would suggest to me that your not actually listening to them speak, or reading what they write.. but rather your just reading the quotes from them in various left-leaning outlets and on social media.

Its very easy to get the impression, when your getting your information second hand that all these people say is hate, because the only things that they get quoted saying are the hateful things.. in reality the hate is the minority for both of their political careers, and its a tiny part of their platform. I mean, recently I watched trumps interview on good morning britian.. 40 minutes long.. no hate as far as I could hear? Does that mean he never says hateful things, of course not.. but if all your hearing is hate, then you need to either listen more, or get your ears checked.

As for intelligence. To actually believe both are stupid, is a huge sign of bias. Its usually best to presume those you disagree with but are objectively successful are so out of capability, rather than luck.

For trump, he is clearly not academically gifted at all.. but he has the type of intelligence that a used-car-salesman has. Its not your traditional definition of intelligence, but it certainly is an ability that not everyone poseses.. being able to talk your way out of situations and around people, getting people to do what you want and follow you etc. Put an oxford grad in an american car-dealership and all the knowledge in the world won't help them, there is a cognative ability there, which trump-type people posses. I would argue its a form of intelligence (I would also argue that its not the form of intelligence we want in the american president...)

For boris, he clearly is very clever. Listen to him lecture on greek/roman history, or read his writing.. he is a very academically able and intelligent individual, but one who has built a career out of playing the bumbling buffoon. The reason for this is because if you are a tory, there are only two dirrections you can go to get yourself elected. Either you play the every-man tory like cameron and may.. just a regular person, sticking up for normal families etc. Or you play the bumbling rich buffoon like Mogg and Borris.. the alternative is that they actually show what they really are - which is so selfish and greedy that it will never get them elected. So they hide their true nature by either of the two main methods. If Boris presented himself as articulate, posh, well educated, rich etc. he would be despised by most of the voter base.. but if he cultivates an image of a loveable bumbling, cuddly tory, who says funny things and dresses a bit odd.. then a lot of the public who don't follow politics closely, will be tricked into overlooking his real intentions and ability.

But just looking at both of the mens histories shows clearly that they are both more successful then the vast vast majority of men alive, even accounting for their wealth/privileged upbringing. On the balance of things, to presume that its not down to competance, but rather luck or malicious forces beyond their control, is just naieve.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by mgi)
I suppose the UK is still prepared to turn a blind eye on occasions towards racism and repeated extra marital affairs. How the Tory party get away with this while people talk about antisemitism in the Labour i dont know.
To be fair, both a bit of racism and extra marital affairs make him quite representative of the British public!

I agree with you about antisemitism though - its been vastly overblown, and whilst it exists, the tories have an equal number of evils within their own party (or more)
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
You should try actually listening to them. I agree that both of them have said offensive things in the past, but if that's the majority of what your hearing, it would suggest to me that your not actually listening to them speak, or reading what they write.. but rather your just reading the quotes from them in various left-leaning outlets and on social media.

Its very easy to get the impression, when your getting your information second hand that all these people say is hate, because the only things that they get quoted saying are the hateful things.. in reality the hate is the minority for both of their political careers, and its a tiny part of their platform. I mean, recently I watched trumps interview on good morning britian.. 40 minutes long.. no hate as far as I could hear? Does that mean he never says hateful things, of course not.. but if all your hearing is hate, then you need to either listen more, or get your ears checked.

As for intelligence. To actually believe both are stupid, is a huge sign of bias. Its usually best to presume those you disagree with but are objectively successful are so out of capability, rather than luck.

For trump, he is clearly not academically gifted at all.. but he has the type of intelligence that a used-car-salesman has. Its not your traditional definition of intelligence, but it certainly is an ability that not everyone poseses.. being able to talk your way out of situations and around people, getting people to do what you want and follow you etc. Put an oxford grad in an american car-dealership and all the knowledge in the world won't help them, there is a cognative ability there, which trump-type people posses. I would argue its a form of intelligence (I would also argue that its not the form of intelligence we want in the american president...)

For boris, he clearly is very clever. Listen to him lecture on greek/roman history, or read his writing.. he is a very academically able and intelligent individual, but one who has built a career out of playing the bumbling buffoon. The reason for this is because if you are a tory, there are only two dirrections you can go to get yourself elected. Either you play the every-man tory like cameron and may.. just a regular person, sticking up for normal families etc. Or you play the bumbling rich buffoon like Mogg and Borris.. the alternative is that they actually show what they really are - which is so selfish and greedy that it will never get them elected. So they hide their true nature by either of the two main methods. If Boris presented himself as articulate, posh, well educated, rich etc. he would be despised by most of the voter base.. but if he cultivates an image of a loveable bumbling, cuddly tory, who says funny things and dresses a bit odd.. then a lot of the public who don't follow politics closely, will be tricked into overlooking his real intentions and ability.

But just looking at both of the mens histories shows clearly that they are both more successful then the vast vast majority of men alive, even accounting for their wealth/privileged upbringing. On the balance of things, to presume that its not down to competance, but rather luck or malicious forces beyond their control, is just naieve.
It's difficult to believe Johnson would have done so well in life had he not been to Eton.
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barnetlad
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We are a country where the majority of people are religious, and most of those who are not have moral values. None of them can support Boris Johnson and be true to their values. If you want Brexit by 31st October regardless, there are other candidates to choose from.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
For boris, he clearly is very clever. Listen to him lecture on greek/roman history, or read his writing.. he is a very academically able and intelligent individual, but one who has built a career out of playing the bumbling buffoon. The reason for this is because if you are a tory, there are only two dirrections you can go to get yourself elected. Either you play the every-man tory like cameron and may.. just a regular person, sticking up for normal families etc. Or you play the bumbling rich buffoon like Mogg and Borris.. the alternative is that they actually show what they really are - which is so selfish and greedy that it will never get them elected. So they hide their true nature by either of the two main methods. If Boris presented himself as articulate, posh, well educated, rich etc. he would be despised by most of the voter base.. but if he cultivates an image of a loveable bumbling, cuddly tory, who says funny things and dresses a bit odd.. then a lot of the public who don't follow politics closely, will be tricked into overlooking his real intentions and ability.
Enoch Powell was very academically able, and knowledgeable about Greek and Roman history, but made remarks that offended many with his Rivers of Blood speech in the 1960s.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by barnetlad)
Enoch Powell was very academically able, and knowledgeable about Greek and Roman history, but made remarks that offended many with his Rivers of Blood speech in the 1960s.
whats your point?
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mgi
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(Original post by barnetlad)
We are a country where the majority of people are religious, and most of those who are not have moral values. None of them can support Boris Johnson and be true to their values. If you want Brexit by 31st October regardless, there are other candidates to choose from.
The majority of people in Britain are not in fact actually religious. In this so called Christian country most don't go to church. Boris Johnson is offensive but Trump has made political ignorance seem fashionable.
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NJA
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Some people seem to be bewitched by him, calling him electoral viagra (against Corbyn).
Those same people were completely out of touch in assuming the British public would vote Remain.

Vast swaithes of the British public, (outside the wealthy bubble) see him as a baffoon, out of touch with the common man, like his mentor Churchill was. Remember how he had to go to Liverpool to apologise for his comments?
Reducing income tax for the £50-80k bracket is simply seen as a way to get Conservative Party member votes.

As an aside comment, Cecil Parkinson had to resign after it emerged that he had had a love child with a mistress (secretary), Boris has had several mistresses and tried to stop us finding out about an offspring. Now he has one hand on the top job .. . how the Party has changed!
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barnetlad
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
whats your point?
You can know Greek and Roman History and still make racist comments, as both have done.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by mgi)
The majority of people in Britain are not in fact actually religious. In this so called Christian country most don't go to church. Boris Johnson is offensive but Trump has made political ignorance seem fashionable.
In the 2011 census 59% described themselves at Christian, and only 32% as either of no religion or declined to answer.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Learn a lesson from trump.. if the lefts line of attack is that he is offensive and racist, it won't work at all.. attack him instead on his very questionable track record when in office, and the clear mistakes he has made.

His voter base don't care that he can be offensive, intact thats what a lot of them like.. go into the working class parts of the country and say "don't vote for him because he said X or y about Muslims.." and they will say great! We agree!

He has some very questuonable and dodgy mistakes in his past that can make for much better attacks, and raise many more questions about his ability to be the pm
A great response. So true.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by barnetlad)
You can know Greek and Roman History and still make racist comments, as both have done.
I still don't see your point? Your replying to me as if I denied he was racist?
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NJA
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BJ 4 PM is political Love Island
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mgi
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(Original post by barnetlad)
In the 2011 census 59% described themselves at Christian, and only 32% as either of no religion or declined to answer.
But so what? That is a cultural answer. Most of that 59% don't go to a church and actually don't believe in god.
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