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this is just annoying

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Amy_J

I've had first hand experience in such a school, so yes.

And Oxford and Cambridge do tend to consider these things when considering a prospective student's performance in an interview, I believe.

Now pipe down.

first thanks for the help and secondly stop acting like an idiot and telling others to pipe down, you are no one to do that

Reply 61

Vjyrik

There's a thing called 'Information failure' that applies to state schools far more than it does to private schools.
Since many students go to private schools to get good education, many students go to state schools just to get education (well, might have nothing else to do; might simply be told by parents to do so, etc.), so they have this advantage to get better quality higher education, but I don't think that they have any advantages otherwise (admissions, etc.).
We are not informed well about future prospects. I didn't even think of going to university before middle of Year 12 (!, and, actually, it was because of me; no need to get into detail), whereas some private school students begin rambling about universities when they are in Year 9.

Of course, there are many well informed (perhaps through parents, teachers) students from state schools as well as there may be some uninformed private school students. And this lack of information provision also, strongly, affects subject choices: many people start with AS-Levels that they considered "interesting" but eventually developed hate simply because of it being a mistake, having a bad teacher, or being in a group of people who you don't even enjoy being with.

Nonetheless, another factors are peers and peer pressure: many people around me in school don't even know what they will do. When they hear about someone thinking of applying to a top university (or getting straight As at AS/A2), peer pressure will be inevitable! And I believe that this sort of thing affects their chances of even trying to apply, as well as taking the students' motivation away!

Of course, I don't know what exactly happens in private schools, so I can't make a perfect judgement - there may be quite a few of those 'anti-motivational' types who stop you from making a big leap into future, too.

Reply 62

bored*star

Jc1990

Yeah. I realise it's not all down to grades, it's just my college puts such an emphasis on it :p:

I've seen some past questions, I'm looking at doing Mathematics, and I knew that some universities expect you to do questions which would not have been taught in classes before, and all sorts of other things, sometimes not even related to the subject, things you don't really expect. But, at the same time, there is some structure to interviews, right?

Anyway, thanks for that.

I understand that science and maths interviews are much more structured than the arts/humanities ones (which are still in there own way structured i suppose)
the best thing to get an idea of interview structure is to go to an Open Day (esp for the college you want to apply for) and it may give you chance to talk to admission tutors or, even more helpfully current students (who have obviously been through the whole process).
or try asking TSR members- there must be some maths applicants who will give a better insight into the interview process/

Oh well, that was a bit off the state advantage/disadvantage topic.

Reply 63

ScholarsInk

im so academic

how come all the fancy universities i.e. oxbridge and imperial have this competive reputation on getting the most private school undergraduates, i.e. they are disadvantageding students from state schools. just becuase private and grammar schools like eton and them lot are so fancy they have the higher advantage into going to these universities?

sometimes i wish that the government would abolish private/grammar schools and turn them all state or convert the state schools in grammar schools.........

They get an advantage in that they go to better schools and therefore might have had more support. Should it now be illegal for schools to be of high quality? Basically, in your understanding, it is better that all schools are of similarly abysmal quality.

Wonderful.

I go to a state school. I'm not "disadvantaged".

Reply 64

Mayfly

taiy

I have nothing against people from private school or those who pull strings to get into their program....... but they'll soon realize that they'll have to work 5 times as hard as everyone else (who got in by merit) to keep up.

I don't think you meant this to be as much of a blanket statement as it ended up being...I hope...but you get extremely bright people from private schools. I know people at high-ranked universities in Canada from private schools - they got in on merit too, like it or not.

Reply 65

bored*star

taiy

I agree SOME private schools have links to some colleges- but how much does this actually help?! AND with the access programmes does that not give state students contacts in colleges too. BUT as for 'pulling strings' well, not heard of any major cases of people who shouldn't getting in getting places as a consequence- but hey

AND as for having to work '5 times as hard as everyone else' you seem to be implying that those who go to Oxbridge from private schools havent earned their place and aren't as academically able to keep up. They have worked just as hard as State school students to get their As and their places, aren't any less intelligent, so you're blanket statement seems not only wrong but judgmental and insulting

Reply 66

littlemiss-sunshine

sidewalkwhenshewalks

Argggghhhhh!
Why do grammar schools always get lumped in with the private schools. I go to a grammar school and the secondary is on the other side of the playing field, and apart from the slightly better grades and the ****ing blazer, you cant tell the difference between the pupils (especially on the weekends)

I agree! (with most of that anyway)
Grammar schools always get treated exactly the same as private schools in these sorts of arguments, but they're so much closer to other state schools. I go to a grammar school, I don't pay for my tuition and just because there's an entrance exam, it doesn't mean that it should be any easier/harder for us to get into Oxbridge than someone from a state school with no entrance exam.

Reply 67

curiouslyorange1989

LOL we state schoolers arnt disadvantaged man! theres just less of us that have the skillz to get into the good places.

its a combination of us being generally thicker, getting less support at school, less support in the home, less social pressure to acheive and lower ambitions...

therfore less of us even bother trying for oxbridge etc...

Reply 68

NickEM

im so academic

Oh for heaven's sake grow up!

Reply 69

thomasjtl

Of course private school students have an advantage over most state schools- the whole raison d'etre of the private school is to provide a better education than state schools: they wouldn't exist if they didn't. Universities aren't biased (admissions rates are similar for both groups), private schools just produce better students than most state schools (look at gcse a level results etc.)

Somewhere along the line you're gonna be disadvantaged if you're less able than someone else; your school wouldn't be considered worse if this wasn't the case. Of course its not fair on you that your school was ****, but you can't expect the rest of the world to compensate for that. Rather than moaning about it and throwing a hissy fit as the OP seems to have done use some inititive and compensate for failings of the education your school provides:
read your textbook (or get one out the library if you don't have one), go on summer schools, stay behind after lessons and ask your teachers about stuff.

Every school in the country is sent application info from oxford and cambridge, they both have accurate info on their websites, this forum is a wealth of information from current students (take what applicants say with a pinch of salt). Go on open days- they're advertised on the admissions websites. Talk to jcr access officers (emails on jcr websites)- ask if they can put you in touch with someone doing your subject (chances are they'll find someone for you to talk to).

If interview prep is what you want, talk to your teachers- ask them to grill you with some hard history questions or whatever. Better yet, ask one of the teachers who doesn't normally teach you. If your school won't help you because you've got two Bs at GCSE and hence not in the 'oxbridge group', they're oxbridge application advice is evidently a crock of **** and probably not worth listening to, so go straight to your subject teachers who hopefully won't be so ridiculous.

Failing that, read the profiles on www.oxbridge-applications.info. Ask your mum/dad/next door neighbour to listen to you talk about your subject, what interests you and why you wanna study it, get them to ask you questions to elaborate on topics and explain them- it doesn't matter if they've not got a clue what you're on about, the point is to practise articulating and explaining your thoughts.

If any of the things above are problematic for you then chances are you're truely deprived, in which case get in touch with the access schemes; they're there to help people like you.

Grammar school people- "we're just like comphensives, honest", 'cept that pretty much everyone in your school passed the 11+ so is not completely ******ed. No one's saying it's just like going to Eton, but seriously? Get real- your school's probably not perfect, but you could do a lot worse.

Reply 70

Huw Davies

dealbreaker

State school attendees.

I attended state school. I have never believed in or expressed a belief in "a right to be favoured by the top universities over private-school pupils". Therefore, you lose.

Reply 71

JoMo1

I hope it is realized that as a public school pupil (the proper name for a non-state school, however unintuitive it is) I am constantly berated with the fact that having gone to a public school will disadvantage me because Oxbridge are trying to raise their state school pupil numbers. From what I have seen it is complete rubbish. They take the best candidates from the people who apply, it's just that an incredibly small proportion of people from state schools apply to Oxbridge. My school isn't amazing but we send 6-8 applicants a year and normally get about 2-4 in, most state schools haven't done that in the history of their existence. As soon as you decide to apply to Oxbridge, everyone is pretty much on a level-playing field: were all screwed because it's damned hard to get in!

Lesson to learn: The grass is always greener on the other side, even if you're all sitting on a beach.

Reply 72

Huw Davies

JoMo1

I hope it is realized that as a public school pupil (the proper name for a non-state school, however unintuitive it is)

Not all private schools are public schools.

There is a funny exchange in one of Bill Bryson's books where he is trying to explain the concept to an American:

"They call public schools, state schools."
"But they don't have states in England!"

Reply 73

dealbreaker

Huw Davies

You must have understood that my address to state school attendees did not refer to all state school attendees. Of course, there are exceptions. My mistake was not to qualify my address to make this clear.

Reply 74

JoMo1

Huw Davies

fair point, but this debate does really centre around public schools, the schools which were originally set up set up as Oxbridge feeders.

Reply 75

dealbreaker

Huw Davies

I attended state school. I have never believed in or expressed a belief in "a right to be favoured by the top universities over private-school pupils". Therefore, you lose.

Sorry I'm struggling hard to figure out what game it is we are or were meant to be playing... What have I lost?

Reply 76

hobnob

Not exactly on-topic, but how come our oh-so-academic OP keeps starting threads and apparently never bothers to come back for the ensuing discussions? :confused:

Reply 77

Amy_J

hobnob

Not exactly on-topic, but how come our oh-so-academic OP keeps starting threads and apparently never bothers to come back for the ensuing discussions? :confused:

He is far too academic for mere debates on the internet - he'll be constructing his thesis on the subject, with which he will return and post it for our perusal in due course.

I expect.

Reply 78

FadedJade

What is the deal with all this grammar school rubbish?

It really bugs me how people go on like grammar schools are really bad really posh places. They aren't. The reason more people from grammar schools go onto Oxbridge than other state schools is because you have to be smarter than the other applicants to get in. Money is irrelevant. I went to a grammar school and there were plenty of us from council estates with not a penny to our names. We got there on merit, so why shouldn't have access to prestigious universities on the same merit? The only reason such people are more likely to get in is because they were intelligent enough to go to a grammar as opposed to a comprehensive in the first place. (Obviously this only applies to places where there are grammar schools, I'm well aware that this may not be the case across the country.)

(Sorry if this has already been said but it really annoys me!)

Reply 79

bored*star

Amy_J

He is far too academic for mere debates on the internet - he'll be constructing his thesis on the subject, with which he will return and post it for our perusal in due course.

I expect.