Oxford Or Birmingham University?

My Oxford educated sons went to private school, however were on scholarships. Before that they were on free school meals (in primary school). I was a single mum who worked for minimum wage in a petrol station. So private school pupils are not all Tarquins.

I think you are deliberately missing my point.

Your sons sound extremely intelligent and hard-working. I said 'people for whom Oxbridge was an expectation'. The reason I said 'Tarquin' was because some working- and middle-class people who go to private schools. 'Tarquin' acted as a caveat in order not to tarred all private school-educated people with the same brush. I would have thought I was perfectly clear that I was not referring to people from poorer backgrounds or (I presume) first-generation uni graduates. You clearly understood what I meant by writing 'So private school pupils are not all Tarquins'.

This misunderstanding seems to have started with a fairly innocuous remark on my part. I was making an anecdotal obversation about certain extremely posh people I know. These were the kind of people whose fathers and grandfathers had all gone to Oxbridge, followed by banking or dabbling in politics, supported by family money.

You will note, I hope, that I also made an exception in my previous post about fairly posh people who went to Oxbridge but who are self-aware enough not to think Oxbridge is normal.

There are people from all different walks of life who get into Oxford. Most Oxford undergraduates are from state schools. (64.5% - see article below). Yet in a recent survey, the public thought 95% of Oxford undergraduates are from the "extremely posh" background you describe.

https://cherwell.org/2019/05/21/one-in-four-oxford-students-set-to-be-from-most-disadvantaged-backgrounds-by-2023/

Anyone should feel comfortable enough to apply, if they are intelligent enough. There is a kind of mutual respect for each other, no matter where you come from, as everyone had to work hard to get in.

Yes, there are extremely posh students for whom it is an expectation to get in. My younger son's closest friend is an example of this. He went to a top nine public school, and we struggle for money, yet he adores my son and shared a set with him this year. They even college married each other. Everyone at my son's college is equally friendly to me, and I wouldn't know which school they went to unless I asked them. Oxford is trying hard to combat the stereotype of privileged students who are supported by family money and connections.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/if-oxford-shrugs-alan-rusbridger-admissions-lmh

Whelp, dammit, you guys are making me doubt my decisions even more.


I believe he probably did it in something math related as he is a math teacher (not entirely sure what though). And he didn't go straight into teaching, I believe he did a lot of other stuff aswell although I'm not totally sure what.

Heya.
So I'm unsure whether to go to Oxford Or Birmingham. As Although I know that oxford is one of the best universities, if I go to birmingham I likely won't have any fees and will get a salary. So is it worth the 50k debt to go to oxford?

I have been giving this situation some thought and would just like to add a few points. Oxford is one of top unis in world comp sci and in terms of your future Oxbridge opens doors others do not. Birmingham is not the only uni offering funded courses in this subject so it would not particularly mark you out as particularly special as previous poster suggested.
Better perhaps to be with the brightest minds and make those valuable connections with the best in your field. You will be tutored in small groups by professors and if you want to put in the effort can get access to those whose work you are most interested in so saying you will not get near a professor is rubbish.
Go with your heart on this one.

Heya.
So I'm unsure whether to go to Oxford Or Birmingham. As Although I know that oxford is one of the best universities, if I go to birmingham I likely won't have any fees and will get a salary. So is it worth the 50k debt to go to oxford?

Right let me try to give you a neutral standpoint. Do the course with the content you prefer, don't end up doing something which you'd hate yourself for 3/4 years of your life.

The degree apprenticeship does sound rather nice though and it guides you towards a job with Vodafone which is rather nice I must say and it will lead to a comfortable life. With Oxford you would unlock opportunities at investment banking, top 3 consulting where university prestige actually matters but it doesn't appear you want to do that.

This £50k debt you speak of is irrelevant it's like a tax, which is like an annoying fly which barely dents you in comparison to how much income you actually make. The threshold is currently £25,725.

Both universities are well respected. With Birmingham you will end up with a nice job after this apprenticeship with less thought. (Because there's already a guided career path) And Oxford is Oxford, it's name can carry weight in certain sectors.

As far as I'm aware no one who has posted so far has anything to do with Computer Science. And honestly you should make your mind up on it yourself none of us who have posted appear to have studied at Oxford/Birmingham for Computer Science and there is clearly bias with no evidence based information being given so far. For example just because I attended an all day lecture on Artificial Intelligence doesn't suddenly make me an expert. (I actually did attend one but I'm just pointing out take information from people who never studied the subject with a pinch of salt on the actual course content...) You should speak to lecturers from both universities yourself via an open day/asking admissions if you can have some of their time and look into their research to see what you truly find interesting, and which lecturers you prefer.

Have you thought about what you want to do by the way? If not don't worry, I didn't at your age.

As far as I'm aware no one who has posted so far has anything to do with Computer Science. And honestly you should make your mind up on it yourself none of us who have posted appear to have studied at Oxford/Birmingham for Computer Science and there is clearly bias with no evidence based information being given so far. For example just because I attended an all day lecture on Artificial Intelligence doesn't suddenly make me an expert. (I actually did attend one but I'm just pointing out take information from people who never studied the subject with a pinch of salt on the actual course content...) You should speak to lecturers from both universities yourself via an open day/asking admissions if you can have some of their time and look into their research to see what you truly find interesting, and which lecturers you prefer.

Have you thought about what you want to do by the way? If not don't worry, I didn't at your age.

I have ex-students who come back and speak about their degrees - it is part of my job to be well-informed. My husband works in computing ....

Brilliant, I have friends who work in computing too who talk about their experiences. I still wouldn't class myself as well-informed as I never experienced Computer Science first hand through a degree. I am from a Business background and you are from a Maths background neither of which is Computer Science. I sense Computer Science has a lot more areas of study than just robotics and self-driving cars and it is down to OP to decide what subject areas truly interest them and ultimately which course interests them the most. One way to accomplish this will be to speak to academics at the respective universities and judge for themselves what they think at an open day.

I don't know what Oxford did to you but I have never seen a good word from you about Oxford.

I respect that you are a teacher and your job is to inform but you have to admit Computer Science is not your area of expertise. You make a lot of claims which I would be happy to accept if you actually gave some evidence to back them up. You say Cambridge has a better reputation than Oxford, in what way? Said by whom? Employers? Academics? Industry bodies? Also you're mentioning Cambridge but the thread is 'Oxford or Birmingham University?'
I'm just saying before you throw claims out at least back them up with evidence. I don't want to toy with a young kid's future because of what one person said on TSR without any evidence, with a clear bias against a certain university.

In this case the year in industry claim is acceptable as Vodafone guarantees you one. However, I would like to note for future reference although everything in life comes with a risk just because you're on a year in industry course doesn't mean you'll always get one...

You are right that I'm a mathematician but have taught computing [it was part of my further degree] - my husband is in the industry. I do look at degree content with students so am more aware than most about content. Unless you are a teacher supporting UCAS you won't appreciate the depth of knowledge such a role involves and, yes, I talk to all those people you mention. I am not biased against Oxford actually - it's great for a few degrees but not computing or Engineering. The newer unis are far more industry focused and the content is more up-to-date.

Indeed, but I am just saying you are saying a lot of things but you don't really back it up with any evidence and ultimately we're just meant to accept these claims at face value. That's all!

And others do?!!! I think not - what 'evidence' are others posting? All I see is opinions - some very out of date or from people with no knowledge of computing or the industry.

Some posts so far I would say have provided more evidence, although yes my argument isn't only relevant to you. I'm just saying for such claims from yourself I would of thought there would be a bit more to back it up... but if there isn't fair enough.

I would have thought that knowledge of computing degrees was pretty relevant and having many contacts in the industry was too. I'm not sure what you are looking for as 'evidence'. I know people working for Microsoift research , software developers, network managers for large companies and listen to what they say they want from a future employee. Surely this is more relevant than just posting links to a website.

I have no reason to doubt what you've just said as I don't know you so I'll take your word on it. But you never pointed any of this out before. I only added scrutiny to try to make sure that false information wasn't being passed down.