Who's disappointed Rory Stewart didn't get into the next round? Watch

Fullofsurprises
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Wired_1800)
I think it is silly for enterprises whether big, medium or small to sit on their hands and hope for a miracle.
Major corporations have the resources to do alternate scenario planning, but smaller businesses often don't. Like the general population, they deserve (in exchange for the taxes they pay) government protection from the cynical manipulation of our economy and politics by profoundly corrupt offshore forces and their puppets and tools within the UK. Unfortunately, they haven't been getting that protection.
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Wired_1800
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#42
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Major corporations have the resources to do alternate scenario planning, but smaller businesses often don't. Like the general population, they deserve (in exchange for the taxes they pay) government protection from the cynical manipulation of our economy and politics by profoundly corrupt offshore forces and their puppets and tools within the UK. Unfortunately, they haven't been getting that protection.
That is the nanny state there. Yes, the government should protect the interests its businesses. However, businesses must make plans to keep their organisations.

To me, every sensible chief executive or business head should have, at least, understood what the impact of a No Deal Brexit will be on their business. We are not talking about putting hundreds of millions towards their operations, but knowing what will happen to their people, processes and clients in the event of a No Deal.

It seems many of them are sitting on their hands and hoping that No Deal does not happen rather than trying to protect their businesses.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
That is the nanny state there. Yes, the government should protect the interests its businesses. However, businesses must make plans to keep their organisations.

To me, every sensible chief executive or business head should have, at least, understood what the impact of a No Deal Brexit will be on their business. We are not talking about putting hundreds of millions towards their operations, but knowing what will happen to their people, processes and clients in the event of a No Deal.

It seems many of them are sitting on their hands and hoping that No Deal does not happen rather than trying to protect their businesses.
To call it nanny-statism is deplorable nonsense. The first duty of the state, recognised since the earliest times, is to protect the citizenry from external manipulation and attack, something that HMG have quite plainly failed to do. Indeed, one of the main proponents and facilitators of the damaging foreign special interest assault on our economy is about to be made PM.

Given how bad things are and are going to be, it's probably a rational response to ignore it and hope it will go away. :rolleyes: I'd love to know just what you think the average SME can do about it.
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Wired_1800
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#44
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
To call it nanny-statism is deplorable nonsense. The first duty of the state, recognised since the earliest times, is to protect the citizenry from external manipulation and attack, something that HMG have quite plainly failed to do. Indeed, one of the main proponents and facilitators of the damaging foreign special interest assault on our economy is about to be made PM.

Given how bad things are and are going to be, it's probably a rational response to ignore it and hope it will go away. :rolleyes: I'd love to know just what you think the average SME can do about it.
To me, i think the average SME should be aware of its potential impact. What happens to my business? What happens to my people, processes or technology? How will I operate in the new world? Are there are opportunities outside the EU that I can tap into? What plans can we put in place to manage the impact from No Deal? etc.

I think it is silly or criminal IMO for CEOs or Boards of SMEs to have done nothing in the 3 years since the vote. Like I wrote previously, it is not about putting money aside or having a war chest to protect oneself from Brexit, but more about having the conversation and understanding the challenges as well as opportunities.
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Burton Bridge
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#45
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Never listened to the rest but he was the only one that was upfront about saying its a no deal brexit because they arent going to negotiate and there is no time.
If you never listened to them, how do you know?

I think Rory was playing a political game for his own gain, his Brexit plan was non existing and he was far from genuine.

A great game he played mind you.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Disappointed in a least bad way. He'd not be a good leader for the country, but as the only adult in the race, acknowledging that no deal would be national suicide to spite the EU, he was the most competent one in the running.
In you're opinion, in mine that makes him completely incompetent and given the fact he wants May's deal and won't accept no deal or no brexit, lacking any sense of reality!
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999tigger
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#47
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
If you never listened to them, how do you know?

I think Rory was playing a political game for his own gain, his Brexit plan was non existing and he was far from genuine.

A great game he played mind you.
Because i read several articles about what each said and the differences in their standpoints.

Tbf I dont think I will be relying on your analysis.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
In you're opinion, in mine that makes him completely incompetent and given the fact he wants May's deal and won't accept no deal or no brexit, lacking any sense of reality!
Ok, but the adults in the room know that no deal is not possible, that it would be economic suicide for the country and would be political suicide on an international scale when it involves breaking the good Friday agreement. No deal was never on the table and was never a reliable bluff when the EU know it's impossible. Stewart was the only candidate not mad enough to pretend otherwise, and not reckless enough to make the UK a pariah state.
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Burton Bridge
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#49
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Ok, but the adults in the room know that no deal is not possible, that it would be economic suicide for the country and would be political suicide on an international scale when it involves breaking the good Friday agreement. No deal was never on the table and was never a reliable bluff when the EU know it's impossible. Stewart was the only candidate not mad enough to pretend otherwise, and not reckless enough to make the UK a pariah state.
Again that's you're personal opinion, one which belittles those who disagree as adolescents which in turn makes their opinion worth less than those who agree with you. That's not a great starting point to debate, if anything it's a little bigoted.
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Burton Bridge
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#50
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Because i read several articles about what each said and the differences in their standpoints.

Tbf I dont think I will be relying on your analysis.
I wonder why you wrote the last sentence? I hope you wasn't trying too imply something negative about me in the hope you would get a reaction, so you could report it to the moderating team, that would be terribly childish! I'm sure you wasn't trying to do such a thing of course, it would be interesting to know what you was doing?

Now back to topic, the problem with reading articles about what each said and the differences in their standpoints, is you get a another person's interpretation of what they meant and the other person's biast. In the media we can police what pov we take read by what media channel we watch or what political figure we listen too.

My point is neither are reliable, if you have not listened to the people yourself, you cannot really make a detailed and balanced opinion.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#51
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Again that's you're personal opinion, one which belittles those who disagree as adolescents which in turn makes their opinion worth less than those who agree with you. That's not a great starting point to debate, if anything it's a little bigoted.
No. We can't make any significant changes to the Irish border under the GFA is a fact, not an opinion. No deal would require changes because that would no longer be something we could treat as an internal border, unless we had an agreement (say, a deal) with the EU. Rory Stewart was the only adult in the running who recognised that, and anyone who doesn't recognise that, well their opinion is genuinely worthless, just like the opinion of flat earthers is worthless and not worth hearing.
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Burton Bridge
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#52
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
No. We can't make any significant changes to the Irish border under the GFA is a fact, not an opinion. No deal would require changes because that would no longer be something we could treat as an internal border, unless we had an agreement (say, a deal) with the EU. Rory Stewart was the only adult in the running who recognised that, and anyone who doesn't recognise that, well their opinion is genuinely worthless, just like the opinion of flat earthers is worthless and not worth hearing.
Comparing brexiteers to flat earthers is a little extreme, I remember watching a debate where Jacob Rees-Mogg tore junker a new back side regarding the Irish issue, it was quite embarrassing how he systemically destroyed his every point clamly and effectively. I'll see if I can find it.
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L i b
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#53
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
He would have ruined the nation. Anyone who negotiates with another person and does not have the option to walk away is an idiot.
We don't have that option. Parliament has been quite clear that it will not accept it - aside from the obvious point that it would be a stupid move, and it doesn't take thousands of civil servants in Brussels to be able to tell that.
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L i b
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Rory was pretty much the only one in the race who wasn't either incredibly bland (Hunt, Harper), making up complete nonsense about Brexit (Johnson, Raab) or Michael Gove (Gove). That he was trying to position the Conservative Party to seize the abandoned centre ground was the cherry on the cake as far as I'm concerned.

The Conservatives have gone down the route of chasing right-wing Brexiteers at the expense of the liberal middle class. Firstly, that's electorally stupid as we saw in 2017: we picked up votes in the north, but not enough to make an impact, while losing hard-won seats in the south. Secondly, I'm not sure that's really the party we want to be: I'd rather not feel like Tommy Robinson walking into a drinks party if I'm wearing a blue rosette.

If Boris Johnson carries on with this approach, it will be a disaster that'll hurt the party for a generation. It appears the thinking is that we can outdo the Brexit Party - it seems obvious to me that we can't. For a time in Scotland, the Labour Party tried to push its Scottishness and nationalism-lite in competition with the Scottish Nationalists: they ended up getting an absolute kicking for it, because people will always prefer the real thing to a wishy-washy imitation. Nigel Farage can always go that bit harder on Brexit, he can always look a bit tougher on immigrants - and people who are inclined towards these things will not only not vote Tory, they'll actively hate the Tories that little bit more for trying.
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Wired_1800
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#55
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(Original post by L i b)
We don't have that option. Parliament has been quite clear that it will not accept it - aside from the obvious point that it would be a stupid move, and it doesn't take thousands of civil servants in Brussels to be able to tell that.
That is why Parliament, we must have another election. Many of those MPs stood on manifestos that stated they will support and fulfil the wishes of the referendum. If they are not support it now, they lied and must be removed.

It is absurd that people are unable to see that their MPs have misled them. It is no wonder they are being fooled, they are not to clever to demand more from their representatives.
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L i b
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
That is why Parliament, we must have another election. Many of those MPs stood on manifestos that stated they will support and fulfil the wishes of the referendum. If they are not support it now, they lied and must be removed.

It is absurd that people are unable to see that their MPs have misled them. It is no wonder they are being fooled, they are not to clever to demand more from their representatives.
Oh for heaven's sake. Some people want the withdrawal agreement, some people have concerns about it and some are in the position of being prepared to put it through despite having reservations. The Conservatives clearly said in their manifesto that they would "secure a smooth, orderly Brexit", while Labour said "Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option".

Who is lying here? Who suggested that no deal would be a positive outcome that they would vote for?

It is, of course, complex. Trying to throw the house of cards up in the air and hoping they will land in a more favourable way isn't a plan and it certainly isn't a solution. Nor would a party standing on a specifically no deal platform be particularly positive electorally, in my humble opinion.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by L i b)
Oh for heaven's sake. Some people want the withdrawal agreement, some people have concerns about it and some are in the position of being prepared to put it through despite having reservations. The Conservatives clearly said in their manifesto that they would "secure a smooth, orderly Brexit", while Labour said "Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option".

Who is lying here? Who suggested that no deal would be a positive outcome that they would vote for?

It is, of course, complex. Trying to throw the house of cards up in the air and hoping they will land in a more favourable way isn't a plan and it certainly isn't a solution. Nor would a party standing on a specifically no deal platform be particularly positive electorally, in my humble opinion.
Since we cannot decide, then we should have an election. If the people choose Farage, then we know where they stand. Explaining away the incompetence of our MPs needs to stop. Theresa May has brought the country to its knees because she wanted to be everything to everyone. We either stay or leave.
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Burton Bridge
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#58
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(Original post by L i b)
We don't have that option. Parliament has been quite clear that it will not accept it - aside from the obvious point that it would be a stupid move, and it doesn't take thousands of civil servants in Brussels to be able to tell that.
It's stupid not to keep it on the table
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NJA
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Did you know his real name is Rod Stewart?

Wonder if he'll be singing this?
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L i b
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It's stupid not to keep it on the table
It never has been seriously on the table. If you think the European Commission and the EU27 don't realise that, then you're kidding yourself.
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