Good old Brexit... Watch

lm17.2019
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Do you want brexit? I believe that common sense beats democracy any day of the week. If you want Brexit, could you tell me why? With actual fact too.

Thoughts on Boris too?
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mazenod
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Brexit is caused by racism.
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fallen_acorns
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I like the principles behind brexit, but its unworkable in reality.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by mazenod)
Brexit is caused by racism.
Lol, well there's a reason for voting to leave summed up by mazenoid, blatant ignorance.
Yes I want brexit because I don't trust anything that the EU does, whatever they say they do want the EU to become a superstate which is bad for everyone's future, you know stuff like propping up shite economies and doing what's best for Germany.
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17fungl
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(Original post by lm17.2019)
Do you want brexit? I believe that common sense beats democracy any day of the week. If you want Brexit, could you tell me why? With actual fact too.

Thoughts on Boris too?
F*#k ur future , CHOOSE JOHNSON !!
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The Mogg
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Yes a brexit thread! Never seen one of these before!
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athene2
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(Original post by lm17.2019)
Do you want brexit? I believe that common sense beats democracy any day of the week. If you want Brexit, could you tell me why? With actual fact too.

Thoughts on Boris too?

I live in Germany, and really don't think Brexit is a good idea, especually in case of a no deal scenario. It would mess up many things.
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Last edited by athene2; 4 weeks ago
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Andrew97
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(Original post by mazenod)
Brexit is caused by racism.
Not really.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by athene2)
I live in Germany, and really don't think Brexit is a good idea, especually in case of a no deal scenario. It would mess up pretty much anything. Just taking me as an example, I would maybe have to have a visa for going to uni in the uk, which I'm planning to do. Unfortunately, I fall into 2021 entry and really hope that the fees of the Uni I want to aplly for doesn't increase to a point where I would have to pay overseas fee, which I wouldn't be able to do
Sorry but this is not a problem which concerned me when I voted to leave the EU, I was more concerned about the future of the UK.
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Bio 7
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(Original post by athene2)
I live in Germany, and really don't think Brexit is a good idea, especually in case of a no deal scenario. It would mess up pretty much anything. Just taking me as an example, I would maybe have to have a visa for going to uni in the uk, which I'm planning to do. Unfortunately, I fall into 2021 entry and really hope that the fees of the Uni I want to aplly for doesn't increase to a point where I would have to pay overseas fee, which I wouldn't be able to do
So we should have gone remain so you wouldn’t have a problem going to a uni here?

Those kinds of problems didn’t concern the voters and nor should it.
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athene2
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(Original post by Bio 7)
So we should have gone remain so you wouldn’t have a problem going to a uni here?

Those kinds of problems didn’t concern the voters and nor should it.
No, I'm sorry I made it seem like I think voters would be concerned about that. That's not what I'm saying. I just wanted to show that it could mess things up in many ways and just took that as an example. In my view, the Brexit would for example make the fight against terror less efficient, because many states working together are probably able to work better than one state alone. That aspect is also imprtant to MI5 and MI6, which are both against Brexit. The trade market is imortant too, as many jobs in the UK could be lost in relation to the Brexit,
Brexit would probably make it difficult for UK citizens to travel tobthe Rest of Eurooe without a visa and so on
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by lm17.2019)
Do you want brexit? I believe that common sense beats democracy any day of the week. If you want Brexit, could you tell me why? With actual fact too.

Thoughts on Boris too?
Brexit should never have been put to a referendum - the general public simply don't understand the issues, and, IMO, most voted without understanding them.

Boris is actually a muppet puppet.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by athene2)
No, I'm sorry I made it seem like I think voters would be concerned about that. That's not what I'm saying. I just wanted to show that it could mess things up in many ways and just took that as an example. In my view, the Brexit would for example make the fight against terror less efficient, because many states working together are probably able to work better than one state alone. That aspect is also imprtant to MI5 and MI6, which are both against Brexit. The trade market is imortant too, as many jobs in the UK could be lost in relation to the Brexit,
Brexit would probably make it difficult for UK citizens to travel tobthe Rest of Eurooe without a visa and so on
All of these issues can and should be sorted pretty simply, but everyone wants to play hardball so the best bet now is for us to leave without a deal and then negotiate, it would sharpen everyone's minds and cause all to become a bit more pragmatic.
We lose more on trade yes, but the EU loses on security as, within Europe at least, our security services are second to none.
So common sense dictates that a compromise would be reached pretty quickly.
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OG_ElGato
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
Brexit should never have been put to a referendum - the general public simply don't understand the issues, and, IMO, most voted without understanding them.

Boris is actually a muppet puppet.
In theory you could argue that about everything in politics. But that is democracy.

Arguably, what makes Steve the Plumber who dropped out of school less eligible to vote than Dr Simmons who graduated from Cambridge. They are citizens of a country, and have a right to choose what happens in that country.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I like the principles behind brexit, but its unworkable in reality.
It would be more convincing if those advocating principled reasons for Brexit (national sovereignty, the uniqueness of British Parliamentary democracy, undemocratic drives for a Federal Europe) were consistent - yet the fiercest advocates have shown in the last couple of years that they care little for either our Parliament or our Democracy. This inevitably leads to the strongest suspicions that they in fact have other motives than the stated ones.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by lm17.2019)
Do you want brexit? I believe that common sense beats democracy any day of the week. If you want Brexit, could you tell me why? With actual fact too.

Thoughts on Boris too?
A badly conceived referendum doesn't amount to a democratic imperative which trump's all future democratic processes. If people knew then that leaving the EU wasn't simple and without massive economic consequences I think many would have voted differently. There never should have been a referendum anyway of course, Cameron was a self-serving fool.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It would be more convincing if those advocating principled reasons for Brexit (national sovereignty, the uniqueness of British Parliamentary democracy, undemocratic drives for a Federal Europe) were consistent - yet the fiercest advocates have shown in the last couple of years that they care little for either our Parliament or our Democracy. This inevitably leads to the strongest suspicions that they in fact have other motives than the stated ones.
Your certainly right that the brexit campaign/leaders have been more inconsistant in their arguements then those supporting remain. I do wonder though how much of it is done on purpose with bad intents, and how much is just inherant due to the fact that an movement for change will always be less consistant then a movement for keeping things the same, just because there are far less variables in keeping things the same then there are in changing things.

For example, its very easy to be consistant if your movement is "do nothing" - but its much harder if its "we want change" because then you get so many possibilities for what change, and how to make the change.

I imagine its probably a bit of both, a bit of bad intent, and a bit of the nature of the situation.
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Justvisited
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It would be more convincing if those advocating principled reasons for Brexit (national sovereignty, the uniqueness of British Parliamentary democracy, undemocratic drives for a Federal Europe) were consistent - yet the fiercest advocates have shown in the last couple of years that they care little for either our Parliament or our Democracy. This inevitably leads to the strongest suspicions that they in fact have other motives than the stated ones.
You have completely missed the point about Parliament - or more accurately, its current set of occupants.

The referendum was offered and held on the clear understanding that Parliament would respect and implement its result either way.

In the general election less than a year later, over 80 per cent of MPs won their seats on a platform pledging to implement the result of the referendum.

And now that both these promises have been brazenly broken, do you seriously think it surprising that Leave advocates hold those parliamentarians in a certain disdain? Really you should be asking yourself why anyone would care for them at all.

It's the MPs who are guilty of a blatant existential self-contradiction in (a) claiming their authority to govern/legislate derives from the people who elected them, and yet (b) denying the authority of the same people who voted to leave the EU. They can't have it both ways, and that's at the very crux of their visceral, possibly terminal crisis and the contempt in which they are now generally held out in the country at large.

It's also the reason why e.g. the Brexit Party also gained support from some people who voted Remain in 2016, who realise that it's gone beyond the substantive issue to one of trust in politicians to deliver the popular will. This would apply regardless of the initial issue - e.g. if there'd been a referendum on introducing proportional representation at Westminster, and people had voted for it, and three years later this was still being frustrated by MPs on the self-serving grounds that they'd probably lose their seats, etc., precisely the same point would hold - people from both sides of the initial argument would rightly be incensed with this double-dealing.

(Original post by BeetRoots)
A badly conceived referendum doesn't amount to a democratic imperative which trump's all future democratic processes. If people knew then that leaving the EU wasn't simple and without massive economic consequences I think many would have voted differently. There never should have been a referendum anyway of course, Cameron was a self-serving fool.
I've no idea what you mean by your first sentence. Any election has big consequences, e.g. the Scottish referendum of 2014 would have, that's just the way it goes. Your wise-from-hindsight argument could be used against all plebiscites and proves too much. As for claiming there shouldn't have been a referendum - what, after over 40 years, with massive (your word) changes in the nature of the organisation we joined in 1973, and still no ratification of popular approval of its direction of travel? This is typical Remain/EU right-to-rule mentality, which in fact was part of why people voted to leave.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by Justvisited)
I've no idea what you mean by your first sentence. Any election has big consequences, e.g. the Scottish referendum of 2014 would have, that's just the way it goes. Your wise-from-hindsight argument could be used against all plebiscites and proves too much. As for claiming there shouldn't have been a referendum - what, after over 40 years, with massive (your word) changes in the nature of the organisation we joined in 1973, and still no ratification of popular approval of its direction of travel? This is typical Remain/EU right-to-rule mentality, which in fact was part of why people voted to leave.
I'm not against referendums but some issues are more suited to them than others, some have clear choices the consequences of which are reasonably obvious. Membership of the EU was a terrible choice to put to a badly informed (and often misled) public. All we can do now it seems is watch this slow-motion car-crash.
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Justvisited
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
I'm not against referendums but some issues are more suited to them than others, some have clear choices the consequences of which are reasonably obvious. Membership of the EU was a terrible choice to put to a badly informed (and often misled) public. All we can do now it seems is watch this slow-motion car-crash.
Do you think the 1975 referendum was a mistake as well then?

Try to think through the consequences of what you write before you write them...
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