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did my first big drive and have a few questions

Appreciate input from more experienced drivers on these situations. I went to the lake district btw so the driving was tough given i passed 5 weeks ago!!!

1. On the motorway 3x as I was passing a HGV in the middle lane the HGV started indicating right. I didn't know if they could see me so what to do. Each time I just got out of the way asap either sideways front or back just in case but it freaked me out.

2. When should you peep the horn? I saw people doing it on blind turns/hills on the narrow single track roads but only a few did it.

3. I got stuck behind a cyclist on a seriously steep hill and I didn't feel I could see far enough to safely overtake so I was crawling behind him. Think the car behind just thought I couldn't handle the hill and was trying to get past me and beeping. I didn't know how to communicate that I was waiting for a reason.

4. I struggled generally on severely steep hills (like 10-20% gradient) with gear changes. I found if I wanted to change down a gear the car slowed so fast the second I put the clutch down that I was in danger of causing someone to go into the back of me. This was leaving me taking hills probably in a lower gear than necessary to avoid gear changes which made people frustrated at my speed.
(edited 4 years ago)

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Reply 1
Original post by doodle_333
Appreciate input from more experienced drivers on these situations. I went to the lake district btw so the driving was tough given i passed 5 weeks ago!!!

1. On the motorway 3x as I was passing a HGV in the middle lane the HGV started indicating right. I didn't know if they could see me so what to do. Each time I just got out of the way asap either sideways front or back just in case but it freaked me out.

2. When should you peep the horn? I saw people doing it on blind turns/hills on the narrow single track roads but only a few did it.

3. I got stuck behind a cyclist on a seriously steep hill and I didn't feel I could see far enough to safely overtake so I was crawling behind him. Think the car behind just thought I couldn't handle the hill and was trying to get past me and beeping. I didn't know how to communicate that I was waiting for a reason.

4. I struggled generally on severely steep hills (like 10-20% gradient) with gear changes. I found if I wanted to change down a gear the car slowed so fast the second I put the clutch down that I was in danger of causing someone to go into the back of me. This was leaving me taking hills probably in a lower gear than necessary to avoid gear changes which made people frustrated at my speed.


1) Don't sit next to a HGV. Either overtake it, or pull in behind it. That's their blind spot.

2) Read the highway code.

3) You probably could have overtaken it just fine.

4) Use. Your. Right. Foot.
Reply 2
Original post by IWMTom
1) Don't sit next to a HGV. Either overtake it, or pull in behind it. That's their blind spot.

2) Read the highway code.

3) You probably could have overtaken it just fine.

4) Use. Your. Right. Foot.


1. I was overtaking... on the speed limit... But it still takes a few seconds.

2. I'm aware of what the highway code says. But do you beep on every blind section? Cos that was multiple times a mile.

3. I could not and I'm not going to take chances overtaking a cyclist.

4. How does using my accelerator help? I was always taught you can't use the accelerator with the clutch down. If I speed up before changing I just exacerbate the engine braking.

Also... if you find my questions annoying hit the back button rather than being snarky. I've been driving 5 weeks and driving in the lake district is very different and much harder than anything I had previously experienced on local roads. Just trying to learn from the experience for next time.
Reply 3
I've been driving for many years and if I'm overtaking on a motorway I check that the lane to my right is clear behind me, indicate then pull out to overtake.

Lorries tend to indicate even if the lane to their right is not clear and often expect traffic in lane 2 to move to lane 3 to allow them to overtake as it takes them a while to build up their speed and don't want to lose momentum.
As they're a lot bigger than my car I either move out to lane 3 to overtake or slow down in lane 2 to let the lorry pull out.
Reply 4
1. Usually HGV drivers start indicating having seen the car behind and intend to pull out after you, or hope you will give way to them by holding back or changing lane. The secret is keep your nerve, never sit in their blind spot (where you can't see their mirrors) and to either confidently pass them while they signal or purposely hold back or change lane so they realise you are giving way. In my experience confidently passing them is usually the best bet to keep the traffic flowing, but be aware if anyone is approaching in lane 3 in case they do pull out. I think this situation is one of the most common and difficult busy motorway dilemmas, by the way.

2. This is a grey area. Advanced driving promotes a horn signal ahead of blind turns etc, but few are advanced drivers. Plus it could be a risk on roads where horses are likely. Best advice is to make use of the horn more than most would, but not routinely at every tight bend nor where you have seen horses or horse warning signs.

3. Select the right low gear and hold back until you can overtake leaving a full car width between you and the cyclist. You can't really avoid that there are countless idiots behind you that will not follow this, you just have to be aware of them and not be foolish like them. However if there is a safe gap be aware of what is going on behind and go for it, don't dither. A dilemma I have had is where the centre road line is solid, the cyclists are going at more than 10mph but it is safe to pass. Strictly speaking you shouldn't straddle the solid line to pass but I think you can use a bit of 'estimation' about the cyclists' speed.

4. I think you are largely doing the right things. On steep down hills you want the benefit of 'engine braking'. So use your brakes first to get to speed you are comfortable with for the hill, select the right gear (usually 3rd) and go for it. A trick I have learnt is to keep a foot very lightly on the brake so the brakes lights are showing through out, encouraging others behind to hold back and making it easy for you to do some further light braking if you wish. Avoid harsh on and off braking,

Anyway, sounds like you did really well on your fist novice driver challenging experience. All your questions are advanced driving ones. Have a look at the IAM or RoSPA advance driving test on line. Really good tuition is available at a fraction of the cost of learning to drive.


Original post by doodle_333
Appreciate input from more experienced drivers on these situations. I went to the lake district btw so the driving was tough given i passed 5 weeks ago!!!

1. On the motorway 3x as I was passing a HGV in the middle lane the HGV started indicating right. I didn't know if they could see me so what to do. Each time I just got out of the way asap either sideways front or back just in case but it freaked me out.

2. When should you peep the horn? I saw people doing it on blind turns/hills on the narrow single track roads but only a few did it.

3. I got stuck behind a cyclist on a seriously steep hill and I didn't feel I could see far enough to safely overtake so I was crawling behind him. Think the car behind just thought I couldn't handle the hill and was trying to get past me and beeping. I didn't know how to communicate that I was waiting for a reason.

4. I struggled generally on severely steep hills (like 10-20% gradient) with gear changes. I found if I wanted to change down a gear the car slowed so fast the second I put the clutch down that I was in danger of causing someone to go into the back of me. This was leaving me taking hills probably in a lower gear than necessary to avoid gear changes which made people frustrated at my speed.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by doodle_333
1. I was overtaking... on the speed limit... But it still takes a few seconds.

2. I'm aware of what the highway code says. But do you beep on every blind section? Cos that was multiple times a mile.

3. I could not and I'm not going to take chances overtaking a cyclist.

4. How does using my accelerator help? I was always taught you can't use the accelerator with the clutch down. If I speed up before changing I just exacerbate the engine braking.

Also... if you find my questions annoying hit the back button rather than being snarky. I've been driving 5 weeks and driving in the lake district is very different and much harder than anything I had previously experienced on local roads. Just trying to learn from the experience for next time.


Not sure why you think I'm being "snarky", but with that sort of attitude I refuse to provide any more of my time. Good luck.
Reply 6
Thanks!
Original post by siamsam
I've been driving for many years and if I'm overtaking on a motorway I check that the lane to my right is clear behind me, indicate then pull out to overtake.

Lorries tend to indicate even if the lane to their right is not clear and often expect traffic in lane 2 to move to lane 3 to allow them to overtake as it takes them a while to build up their speed and don't want to lose momentum.
As they're a lot bigger than my car I either move out to lane 3 to overtake or slow down in lane 2 to let the lorry pull out.
Reply 7
Original post by Zarek
1. Usually HGV drivers start indicating having seen the car behind and intend to pull out after you, or hope you will give way to them by holding back or changing lane. The secret is keep your nerve, never sit in their blind spot (where you can't see their mirrors) and to either confidently pass them while they signal or purposely hold back or change lane so they realise you are giving way. In my experience confidently passing them is usually the best bet to keep the traffic flowing, but be aware if anyone is approaching in lane 3 in case they do pull out. I think this situation is one of the most common and difficult busy motorway dilemmas, by the way.

2. This is a grey area. Advanced driving promotes a horn signal ahead of blind turns etc, but few are advanced drivers. Plus it could be a risk on roads where horses are likely. Best advice is to make use of the horn more than most would, but not routinely at every tight bend nor where you have seen horses or horse warning signs.

3. Select the right low gear and hold back until you can overtake leaving a full car width between you and the cyclist. You can't really avoid that there are countless idiots behind you that will not follow this, you just have to be aware of them and not be foolish like them. However if there is a safe gap be aware of what is going on behind and go for it, don't dither. A dilemma I have had is where the centre road line is solid, the cyclists are going at more than 10mph but it is safe to pass. Strictly speaking you shouldn't straddle the solid line to pass but I think you can use a bit of 'estimation' about the cyclists' speed.

4. I think you are largely doing the right things. On steep down hills you want the benefit of 'engine braking'. So use your brakes first to get to speed you are comfortable with for the hill, select the right gear (usually 3rd) and go for it. A trick I have learnt is to keep a foot very lightly on the brake so the brakes lights are showing through out, encouraging others behind to hold back and making it easy for you to do some further light braking if you wish. Avoid harsh on and off braking,

Anyway, sounds like you did really well on your fist novice driver challenging experience. All your questions are advanced driving ones. Have a look at the IAM or RoSPA advance driving test on line. Really good tuition is available at a fraction of the cost of learning to drive.


Thanks for the advice, really helpful. Yeah I was mostly doing the hills in 2nd once they were 15-20% as it was easier to adjust on corners and more engine braking on windy descents etc but i think I annoyed people going too slowly. I just pulled over a couple of times in laybys if a few cars built up behind. The roads were mostly quiet. I knew all the theory but then you come to a sign saying '14% gradient low gear now' and I'm thinking what's low? 2? 3? 1? I know about brake fade but what's too much braking? Can be hard to judge and you don't wanna find our where the line is!. I'll definitely look at those courses, I did extra motorway lessons and that was really helpful.
Original post by doodle_333
1. I was overtaking... on the speed limit... But it still takes a few seconds.

2. I'm aware of what the highway code says. But do you beep on every blind section? Cos that was multiple times a mile.

4. How does using my accelerator help? I was always taught you can't use the accelerator with the clutch down. If I speed up before changing I just exacerbate the engine braking.


Only going to answer 1, 2 and 4 if you don't mind. The cyclist thing I'd have to see the situation to comment on it.

1.) Try and get past a HGV ASAP, especially the foreign HGV's due to the driver being on the other side of the cab.

2.) You can do, I live in an area with many, many single lanes with sharp corners. I have never once beeped around a corner. If it's dark you can see the lights, in the day just slow right down for the corner.

4.) When going up a hill always have higher revs than you would normally, i.e. keep it in a lower gear just before the gradient.
Reply 9
Yes, I am amazed by the (reckless) speed some people are prepared to travel down steep hills. You are right to go at the speed you view as safe and to use 2nd gear for greater engine braking.
Original post by doodle_333
Thanks for the advice, really helpful. Yeah I was mostly doing the hills in 2nd once they were 15-20% as it was easier to adjust on corners and more engine braking on windy descents etc but i think I annoyed people going too slowly. I just pulled over a couple of times in laybys if a few cars built up behind. The roads were mostly quiet. I knew all the theory but then you come to a sign saying '14% gradient low gear now' and I'm thinking what's low? 2? 3? 1? I know about brake fade but what's too much braking? Can be hard to judge and you don't wanna find our where the line is!. I'll definitely look at those courses, I did extra motorway lessons and that was really helpful.
Original post by doodle_333


4. I struggled generally on severely steep hills (like 10-20% gradient) with gear changes. I found if I wanted to change down a gear the car slowed so fast the second I put the clutch down that I was in danger of causing someone to go into the back of me. This was leaving me taking hills probably in a lower gear than necessary to avoid gear changes which made people frustrated at my speed.


Tell me what car is that, what engine version and at what revs did you try to climb and failed?
Even weak modern cars have pretty flat torque characteristics, they are usually able to climb most of hill without doing kick downs.

Speaking of kicking gears down, it can be done very quickly, exactly like here:
https://youtu.be/xqy5x3ufyK8?t=50

It's all a matter of practice.
First, move your hand to the stick shift, then switch to the lower gear, and hit the clutch only mid the move, before you go from neutral to the gear you want, but not before getting to neutral.
That's actually very helpful I might practice doing it very fast. I have a fiesta 07 1.4l and I didn't fail on any hills but rather often took them a gear lower than I maybe could have to avoid having to change half way up.
Original post by PTMalewski
Tell me what car is that, what engine version and at what revs did you try to climb and failed?
Even weak modern cars have pretty flat torque characteristics, they are usually able to climb most of hill without doing kick downs.

Speaking of kicking gears down, it can be done very quickly, exactly like here:
https://youtu.be/xqy5x3ufyK8?t=50

It's all a matter of practice.
First, move your hand to the stick shift, then switch to the lower gear, and hit the clutch only mid the move, before you go from neutral to the gear you want, but not before getting to neutral.
Original post by doodle_333
That's actually very helpful I might practice doing it very fast. I have a fiesta 07 1.4l and I didn't fail on any hills but rather often took them a gear lower than I maybe could have to avoid having to change half way up.

Start off slowly. With the engine turned off, practice all the moves very slowly, gradually increasing the speed of performing all the movements combo, like a pianist who starts of pracitcing a new piece very very slowly. Once you master doing it very fast, then start off slowly again, this time driving the car. The point is to learn the right habits, without inprinting any errors into your brain. It's nowhere as difficult as playing the piano, but this pianist technique of learning is extremely effective.

Speaking the revs, petrol engines are generally unable to climb if they don't rev at least 2200-2500 rpms.
Original post by PTMalewski
Start off slowly. With the engine turned off, practice all the moves very slowly, gradually increasing the speed of performing all the movements combo, like a pianist who starts of pracitcing a new piece very very slowly. Once you master doing it very fast, then start off slowly again, this time driving the car. The point is to learn the right habits, without inprinting any errors into your brain. It's nowhere as difficult as playing the piano, but this pianist technique of learning is extremely effective.

Speaking the revs, petrol engines are generally unable to climb if they don't rev at least 2200-2500 rpms.


Thanks I'll do that. Yeah I was typically sticking between 2000 and 3000 rpms as that's where the engine sounded happiest.
You can go much higher when necessary. I don't know what is the maximum power rpm's for that engine, but I guess it's somewhere around 6000.
1. HGV drivers aren't the most courteous of drivers, sometimes they'll indicate as soon as they decide they need to move over and hope people see this and give way to them, whereas most other drivers will wait until there's a gap before they indicate. Do be wary of their blind spot, though - remember, if you can't see their face in their wing mirror, they probably can't see you. Just keep passing and if their front wheels do start to turn in your direction, beep them to alert them of your position. Also well worth keeping an eye on what's happening in the lanes to your right, so you know whether or not you can make an evasive manoeuvre if needs be. As always though, if in doubt, hold back.

2. No need to beep before blind corners generally, just slow right down so you can easily and quickly stop if needed.

3. The general rule is don't overtake if you can't see what's coming around the corner. You may have been being overcautious though due to inexperience. This is something that will improve the more you drive.

4. If you're wanting to downshift, getting notable drag upon downshifting means you didn't slow down enough and the engine speed was beyond what it can manage in the lower gear. Hope I correctly understand what you're talking about here, it was a little unclear.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 16
Original post by .Matthew.
You’re a stupid prick mate


Okay then :laugh:
Reply 17
Original post by tesconyc
I was in the exact same position as you last year, just trying to ask some decent questions and got some pointless replys from iwmtom. Best to ignore the n**** and every thing he says. All rubbish


Charming.

EDIT:

Had a look through your past threads in Cars and Motoring - you were happy with my various replies judging by the rep you gave me for the answers?

Any particular thread you'd like to point out? I struggled to find one where you were unhappy with the response...
(edited 4 years ago)
1. Do what the situation calls for, if you can move over right then do so. If not, just try to get by quickly and safely, should the HGV start changing lanes give the horn a go, if that does nothing drop back sharpish.

2. Officially? To alert others that you're there. Unofficially? It's rather acceptable to give someone a blast when they've done wrong. A quick pip when someone isn't paying attention at a set of lights is also somewhat acceptable.

3. The other drive could've likely seen the cyclist. Don't let people pressure you into doing something that isn't safe.

4- Two things here really. Firstly, if you believe high RPMs for the car are bad, you need to drop that belief. Providing the engine and oil are up to operating temp, there's virtually no wear and tear on the engine, be it cruising at a leisurely 1500 RPMs or blasting away at 6000 RPMs. Yes, it's noisy, the car sounds like it doesn't like it (older diesels especially) but it's just the nature of the job they do, unless they have a pleasant engine/exhaust note, they're going to sound like they're about to self destruct (again, especially older diesels). The more power you need to tackle a road, the more RPMs you need. To add to that, when you shift gear your RPMs drop anyway but then you've also go gravity slowing you down while you're freewheeling. You need to shift at a point that puts you in the effective power band for that hill when you get into the next gear. For my car (1.4L turbodiesel putting out a huge ~69 BHP) you're talking about 2250 RPMs after you've shifted gear (roughly where the boost from the turbo really starts to kick in), so that's shifting at about 3000-3500 RPMs.

Don't take that to mean that's what your car needs. Each car is different. A lot of modern cars have the turbo kick in at lower RPMs for efficiencys sake. Likewise, more powerful cars produce more power at lower RPMs. While my car is producing ~150 NM of torque at ~2300 RPM a Ford Mustang will be producing that same amount of torque below 2000 RPM. So for that Mustang, it's effective power band for a hill is a lot lower than that of my car, also helped by the nature of the engine itself. High displacement petrol engines with a lot of cylinders are very diesel like in the sense that they produce a lot of torque at the low end (aided by the extra cylinders and longer strokes), not quite peak torque at very low RPMs, but you're talking 400NM of torque (out of ~475 that the engine will produce at peak) at about 2500 RPMs.

Secondly, on steep hills, timing is everything. You can't be a slouch with the gears on steep hills else you're going to need to compensate with more RPMs.
(edited 4 years ago)
1. For the lorries on motorways and dual carriageays like the A1 near Stamford.

The keys to good, safe motorway driving are spatial awareness and anticipation.

All the time, aim to have a buffer of space around your car. In front and to the rear in your lane and preferably to the side too.
All the time you should be scanning ahead and scanning your mirrors. Gauging the speeds and intentions of other road users.

This is something that comes with experience. The vast majority of the time you can tell when a lorry or a car will change lane. By the relative speed of the vehicles around you and the gaps between them.

On a 3 lane motorway it's fine to move to the outside lane as you approach 2 lorries on the inside lane where it looks like the rear most one will want to overtake. IE you move to give lorries room before they have even started indicating - when safe to do so. EG nothing charging up the 3 rd lane behind you like an express train.

Sometimes a pragmatic squeeze of the throttle that will take you over 70 - on non managed motorways - for a few seconds so that you can get into a gap ahead to let Tommy Tailgater through is a reasonable solution.

Sometimes a gentle squeeze on the brakes or lifting off the throttle is required to keep a safe gap between you and the vehicles in front.


4. for changing down when going uphill. If you ever drive a car where you don't care about a bit of gearbox wear, try changing gears without using the clutch. Changing up is easier than changing down. The key to doing this without grinding the gears is to match the road speed to the engine speed for the given gear you are changing into. It also helps if you lift off the throttle to get it out of the old gear easily.
When changing down gears you need a slight blip on the throttle to get the engine revs high enough but not too high.
Please only do this exercise when safe to do so. For example on a racetrack or with no other vehicles nor pedestrians around you.
The aim of this clutchless gear changing exercise is to get you trained on how to use your right foot for the fastest and smoothest gear changes. So that when you use the clutch, your right foot is properly trained.

What's probably happening at the moment is that when, for example, you change from 3rd to 2nd when going up a steep hill, you are not giving it quite enough gas as you slip the gear into position and take your foot off the clutch. So that you get a moment of engine braking as well as the gravity braking from the hill at the moment that you change gear.
Your gear changes might also be slower than ideal.

Wearing plimsolls or trainers when you drive instead of industrial boots or high heels will help for your pedal control - if you don't do that already.

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