Can I drop Further Maths and still get an offer for Imperial Engineering? Watch

Proportionality
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Sorry for the essay, TLDR: Just read the title.

For a bit of background, I managed to get a 9 in GCSE Maths to my surprise (I was not very good at maths until year 10) overall I had six 9's, one 8, one 7, an A and one 6. This allowed me to apply to take further maths at my 6th form but I had a lot of resistance as they did not think I was capable, perhaps they were right in the end but I wanted to try first to maximise my chances of going to Imperial for Aeronautical Engineering.

I started year 12 with Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Biology as my A-levels and I worked really hard throughout the year. Y12 was an extremely stressful year for me and I struggled with a lot of sleep issues and anxiety over work and barely had time to socialise since all my free periods and a lot of my free time was spent working, mostly on trying to keep up with FM.

I feel like all the time that I spent just to keep up with the pace of FM affected my performance in Biology and Physics and likely got me lower grades in my AS exams for them as a result. I struggled a lot in my Further Maths AS exams so all that work felt like a waste and I am worried that I am likely to get a B/C which is not terrible by any means but my school expects A*'s/A's in FM and the people in y13 that I know that are holding offers from Imperial have an A in further maths as part of their offer.

I will be waiting for my AS maths and further maths exam results til August.

Currently I am predicted A's in Biology and Physics but I am likely to get my physics bumped up to an A* and think I can also bump up Biology to an A* if I beg them and tell them that I am dropping FM so will have much more study time for Bio.

My parents suggest that I drop further maths at A2 and focus on getting the best possible grades that I can for Maths, Physics and Biology at A2. I'm aiming for between A*A*A and A*A*A* Imperial's minimum offers are A*A*A/A*AAA does anyone know if I will even get a look in from universities like Imperial College London for Aeronautical Engineering without further maths. They say that it is strongly encouraged (I assume that because some schools don't offer it they can't say necessary).

I hope that my question does not appear as a humble brag, I am genuinely extremely stressed out about what I should do next. The Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial is my dream course so I just want to maximise my chances of getting in. The environment in my maths department is very toxic and elitist at times. My maths teachers throughout the year said I was clearly not talented in maths despite my work ethic (which they did not believe made up for said lack of talent) and the head of maths said that I had no chance of keeping up with the intensity at Imperial but they seem like overly pessimistic people so I wanted some perspective from some other TSR students/Imperial Engineering Students.
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Anonymous #1
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Imperial is a very competitive place and you have to stand out from the rest if you want a place. I would suggest you keep with further maths and get tuition or extra support for it - unless you absolutely think you're going to fail and if you feel like it's consuming your life. If you drop it, you have to be quite confident that you'll get all A* in your remaining subjects then, as they may be reluctant to offer you a place if they see no further maths and not the top grades for 3 A levels. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but if you manage to get all A*s which you said you're likely aiming for anyway, I think the absence of further maths can be covered.

PS: it's not just about getting in but doing well at uni, so further maths is probably going to help you in your course therefore even if it feels like the end of the world now if you get that B/C, that content may crop up in the course anyway so it may be worth just doing. You know more about your situation than I do, so I guess you just have to make the right choice for yourself regardless of anyone else. Try talking to a career counsellor they will def. help.

Again, please don't be patronized by this post saying 'you have to get all A*s if you drop', but this is an honest opinion as my cousin also goes there for a different course, and it is pretty demanding! Good luck x
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Proportionality
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Imperial is a very competitive place and you have to stand out from the rest if you want a place. I would suggest you keep with further maths and get tuition or extra support for it - unless you absolutely think you're going to fail and if you feel like it's consuming your life. If you drop it, you have to be quite confident that you'll get all A* in your remaining subjects then, as they may be reluctant to offer you a place if they see no further maths and not the top grades for 3 A levels. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but if you manage to get all A*s which you said you're likely aiming for anyway, I think the absence of further maths can be covered.

PS: it's not just about getting in but doing well at uni, so further maths is probably going to help you in your course therefore even if it feels like the end of the world now if you get that B/C, that content may crop up in the course anyway so it may be worth just doing. You know more about your situation than I do, so I guess you just have to make the right choice for yourself regardless of anyone else. Try talking to a career counsellor they will def. help.

Again, please don't be patronized by this post saying 'you have to get all A*s if you drop', but this is an honest opinion as my cousin also goes there for a different course, and it is pretty demanding! Good luck x
Thank you, don't worry I prefer a grounded answer like this. The fact that I might stuggle there if I didn't know the A2 FM content was a big worry for me hence why I took FM but say I got admittance could I possible self-teach it before I started so at least I have some idea of what I'm getting into? I am really only worried about a poor FM grade sullying my application. I'll talk to my careers advisor next week I think.
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That would definitely be a good idea but the main issue here is whether or not you'll get admittance without FM. I do not know much about this course or its requirements and I think the career advisor will help with this, but at the end of the day they will only say it's optional/ it's up to you/it's recommended/don't HAVE to/is advised etc.

Personally, looking at the rigour of Imperial I would try to stick with it and do as well as you can - would be worth getting a tutor.
And in case even you get to your course and FM was useless for it, it would still have helped with your application, so better to not take any risks.

It's a tough situation to be in! I hope whatever you choose works out, all the best!
(Original post by Proportionality)
Thank you, don't worry I prefer a grounded answer like this. The fact that I might stuggle there if I didn't know the A2 FM content was a big worry for me hence why I took FM but say I got admittance could I possible self-teach it before I started so at least I have some idea of what I'm getting into? I am really only worried about a poor FM grade sullying my application. I'll talk to my careers advisor next week I think.
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squeakysquirrel
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My daughter is at Imperial. Tbh I think if you are struggling at FM you may not be right for Imperial - they are extremely pushy and only the very academic seem to go there.

Have you considered other universities - an engineering degree from virtually any other university will be "easier" than Imperial. If you are feeling the pressure now - it is gonna get a whole lot worse at Imperial. Obviously aim high but don't burn yourself out
(Original post by Proportionality)
Sorry for the essay, TLDR: Just read the title.

For a bit of background, I managed to get a 9 in GCSE Maths to my surprise (I was not very good at maths until year 10) overall I had six 9's, one 8, one 7, an A and one 6. This allowed me to apply to take further maths at my 6th form but I had a lot of resistance as they did not think I was capable, perhaps they were right in the end but I wanted to try first to maximise my chances of going to Imperial for Aeronautical Engineering.

I started year 12 with Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Biology as my A-levels and I worked really hard throughout the year. Y12 was an extremely stressful year for me and I struggled with a lot of sleep issues and anxiety over work and barely had time to socialise since all my free periods and a lot of my free time was spent working, mostly on trying to keep up with FM.

I feel like all the time that I spent just to keep up with the pace of FM affected my performance in Biology and Physics and likely got me lower grades in my AS exams for them as a result. I struggled a lot in my Further Maths AS exams so all that work felt like a waste and I am worried that I am likely to get a B/C which is not terrible by any means but my school expects A*'s/A's in FM and the people in y13 that I know that are holding offers from Imperial have an A in further maths as part of their offer.

I will be waiting for my AS maths and further maths exam results til August.

Currently I am predicted A's in Biology and Physics but I am likely to get my physics bumped up to an A* and think I can also bump up Biology to an A* if I beg them and tell them that I am dropping FM so will have much more study time for Bio.

My parents suggest that I drop further maths at A2 and focus on getting the best possible grades that I can for Maths, Physics and Biology at A2. I'm aiming for between A*A*A and A*A*A* Imperial's minimum offers are A*A*A/A*AAA does anyone know if I will even get a look in from universities like Imperial College London for Aeronautical Engineering without further maths. They say that it is strongly encouraged (I assume that because some schools don't offer it they can't say necessary).

I hope that my question does not appear as a humble brag, I am genuinely extremely stressed out about what I should do next. The Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial is my dream course so I just want to maximise my chances of getting in. The environment in my maths department is very toxic and elitist at times. My maths teachers throughout the year said I was clearly not talented in maths despite my work ethic (which they did not believe made up for said lack of talent) and the head of maths said that I had no chance of keeping up with the intensity at Imperial but they seem like overly pessimistic people so I wanted some perspective from some other TSR students/Imperial Engineering Students.
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Proportionality
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(Original post by ak113)
In the exact same position, really good GCSE's (did my math GCSE a year early and took GCSE further maths in yr 11). I have a genuine interest for the subject, I did really well through out the year, there was a period in time when I was getting consistent A's in my tests. Put in hours upon hours revising late into the night for the exams, but still managed to mess up big time in the exams. Really frustrating as the grade I will receive may not reflect my performance throughout the year ( also worried about getting a B for AS).



Also looking to apply for aerospace eng. but now doubting my chances at a school like Imperial.



Also out of curiosity, what exam board was your FM exam?
Our exam board is Edexcel. I checked a UCAS offer calculator and it seems that you can still have a decent chance of getting into Imperial with a B in further maths as long as all your other A-levels are stellar, think A*A*A or above.

I also really want to go to Imperial but the upside is that entry into most other universities will be much easier thanks to all the work you put in trying to get admission to Imperial. It's the old shooting for the moon and landing among the stars situation in the worst case.
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Proportionality
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
My daughter is at Imperial. Tbh I think if you are struggling at FM you may not be right for Imperial - they are extremely pushy and only the very academic seem to go there.

Have you considered other universities - an engineering degree from virtually any other university will be "easier" than Imperial. If you are feeling the pressure now - it is gonna get a whole lot worse at Imperial. Obviously aim high but don't burn yourself out
Thank you for the inside perspective. I was strongly considering the University of Bristol. My further maths class has a few of those "very academic" types and I noticed that my performance pales in comparison to theirs and they just seem to learn much more quickly/effectively than I can so I'm focusing on improving my study techniques this year. I feel like I tend to be motivated to work much harder by a high pressure environment but it does cause me a lot of stress so you may be right about it not being a good environment for me since a pushy environment may not be very good for my mental health.

I'm going to an Imperial Open day today so I'll ask the current students about the work environment and how they cope with the pressure. Thank you for the advice.
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Idg a damn
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you can pm me for any questions (excepting SHM questions)
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Sorry, but if you struggle with maths, why do engineering which is almost all maths? There are so many other options - what about Biology? Also, why Imperial? Almost everyone else there doing engineering will have that A* or A in FM. They're the most academic people in the country. Imperial's minimum offer for Aeronautical Engineering is A*AAA or A*A*A - I checked on their website. FM is strongly encouraged.
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harrysbar
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I also have doubts about whether Imperial would be the best place for you if you struggle in any way with FM. My son did Mech Eng at Birmingham uni and he found the maths component very difficult - admittedly he didn't have FM as they don't require it, but lots of the other students on his course did have it, at least to A/S level.

You seem to have your heart set on Imperial but I feel that you would probably be happier at a less demanding uni. As you get 5 choices on the UCAS form, I don't see a problem with you applying to one that is aspirational and knowing that you might get rejected. My concern is more about what might happen if you do get accepted, and then don't enjoy the elitist environment which you have already said you struggle with at school.
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squeakysquirrel
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Ha... make no mistake....the engineering degree at Bristol may be easier than imperial but it won't be easy. You will be pushed academically. If you work hard and make connections and contacts and graduate with a decent degree it won't matter where you go.
(Original post by Proportionality)
Thank you for the inside perspective. I was strongly considering the University of Bristol. My further maths class has a few of those "very academic" types and I noticed that my performance pales in comparison to theirs and they just seem to learn much more quickly/effectively than I can so I'm focusing on improving my study techniques this year. I feel like I tend to be motivated to work much harder by a high pressure environment but it does cause me a lot of stress so you may be right about it not being a good environment for me since a pushy environment may not be very good for my mental health.

I'm going to an Imperial Open day today so I'll ask the current students about the work environment and how they cope with the pressure. Thank you for the advice.
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Proportionality
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Sorry, but if you struggle with maths, why do engineering which is almost all maths? There are so many other options - what about Biology? Also, why Imperial? Almost everyone else there doing engineering will have that A* or A in FM. They're the most academic people in the country. Imperial's minimum offer for Aeronautical Engineering is A*AAA or A*A*A - I checked on their website. FM is strongly encouraged.
When I said I struggled in Maths I meant that I was likely to get an A* in single and a B in further Maths. I struggle compared to my classmates and what I imagine a typical imperial student would be but I definitely don't believe that I struggle so much that Engineering would be a poor career choice for me. For the vast majority of universities an A* in single maths is enough to prove that you can handle the maths component of the course.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Proportionality)
When I said I struggled in Maths I meant that I was likely to get an A* in single and a B in further Maths. I struggle compared to my classmates and what I imagine a typical imperial student would be but I definitely don't believe that I struggle so much that Engineering would be a poor career choice for me. For the vast majority of universities an A* in single maths is enough to prove that you can handle the maths component of the course.
That's right, an A*/A in Maths and Physics would set you up very nicely for an engineering degree and the FM would be a bonus for most courses. It's just a question of whether Imperial is the best place for you or whether you would be better off at a slightly less intense course than the one at Imperial, which I personally feel you would be
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Proportionality
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I also have doubts about whether Imperial would be the best place for you if you struggle in any way with FM. My son did Mech Eng at Birmingham uni and he found the maths component very difficult - admittedly he didn't have FM as they don't require it, but lots of the other students on his course did have it, at least to A/S level.

You seem to have your heart set on Imperial but I feel that you would probably be happier at a less demanding uni. As you get 5 choices on the UCAS form, I don't see a problem with you applying to one that is aspirational and knowing that you might get rejected. My concern is more about what might happen if you do get accepted, and then don't enjoy the elitist environment which you have already said you struggle with at school.
Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I'll just apply and see what happens I trust the admissions team to determine whether I'm good enough to manage the course. But Imperial is definitely an aspirational choice so I'll definitely be looking at 'less-demanding' courses. Looking at the experience your son had, FM does seem to give you a significant advantage in year 1 so I'll make sure to go over the A2 content even if I drop it I want to minimise my struggle in 1st yr as much as I can.
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Proportionality
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
Ha... make no mistake....the engineering degree at Bristol may be easier than imperial but it won't be easy. You will be pushed academically. If you work hard and make connections and contacts and graduate with a decent degree it won't matter where you go.
Of course, I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought that it would be easy at Bristol (or any other top uni tbh). It was simply the strict entry requirements (people rejected for 1 ums under offers, A*A*A standard offer etc) and admissions process of Imperial that made me fret over Imperial more but you're right, the courses will be of similar quality and difficulty.

I was mistaken about the importance of your university in your employability thanks for clearing that up.

I do have a question though, I hear that some universities have stronger links with certain industries/companies e.g. Formula 1 or Mech Eng companies than others because they like the way the course is taught at *insert uni here* therefore making it easier for students at said unis to break into certain fields of engineering through internships/grad jobs etc. should I factor this into my decisions on where I go or are they just rumours/not that significant?
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Proportionality)
Thanks for the advice I appreciate it. I'll just apply and see what happens I trust the admissions team to determine whether I'm good enough to manage the course. But Imperial is definitely an aspirational choice so I'll definitely be looking at 'less-demanding' courses. Looking at the experience your son had, FM does seem to give you a significant advantage in year 1 so I'll make sure to go over the A2 content even if I drop it I want to minimise my struggle in 1st yr as much as I can.
You're welcome and you will definitely have the advantage over him even just having done one year of FM. I take your point about the admissions team at Imperial and agree they will have more experience than anyone at TSR in determining whether or not you are likely to be able to cope with the course.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do - I think you will be very successful at uni since you are so committed and hard working.
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Hi there. I currently study Aero at Imperial, so maybe I can give some info. Disclaimer this is all just my opinion.

As I can remember, there is a fair amount of further maths in first year. For instance, I think the term two maths had some matrices, probs FP1/FP2 level. I remember structures has some M2. Computing has matrices. Term 1 maths has some pretty intense calculus. Term 2 math has ODE's. Mechanics has ODE's.

The point I'm trying to get across here, is that they cover everything assuming you haven't done FM, but you probably realistically need to be at the maths level where you could have done FM (to maybe A grade IMO). I cannot comment on which subject to take.
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Proportionality
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UPDATE:

After talking to the Aeronautics admissions tutor at the Imperial Open Day I've decided that I'll drop further maths (unless my AS grade comes out as an A) and stick with Maths, Physics and Biology and hope that I still get an offer from Imperial since I should get an A*A*A - A*A*A* prediction. He said that the typical applicant that does further math gets an A/A* in it but they do give some offers to students w/o FM although a lot of the time those students' school didn't offer FM so I imagine that it may look bad that I had the chance to do FM A2 yet dropped it. At least biology is a only the list of subjects that they accept as a 3rd A-level on their website.

I'll focus on getting the best grades I can in those 3 and pour the extra free time into studying / activities to boost my personal statement. I'm looking at other unis with stron g aerospace engineering departments unis e.g. Bristol, Leeds, Bath, Southampton. (bias to southern unis). As many of you have suggested, I may struggle a lot to stay competitive at Inperial and manage the intensity and workload if I find further maths hard. I now get that my uni is not the be all end all as far as my employability goes.

I appreciate all the advice and hope this thread will help other students in a similar position to mine because there seems to be a few dotted about TSR at times that are worried about further maths and entry for engineering courses.
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(Original post by Proportionality)
Sorry for the essay, TLDR: Just read the title.

For a bit of background, I managed to get a 9 in GCSE Maths to my surprise (I was not very good at maths until year 10) overall I had six 9's, one 8, one 7, an A and one 6. This allowed me to apply to take further maths at my 6th form but I had a lot of resistance as they did not think I was capable, perhaps they were right in the end but I wanted to try first to maximise my chances of going to Imperial for Aeronautical Engineering.

I started year 12 with Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Biology as my A-levels and I worked really hard throughout the year. Y12 was an extremely stressful year for me and I struggled with a lot of sleep issues and anxiety over work and barely had time to socialise since all my free periods and a lot of my free time was spent working, mostly on trying to keep up with FM.

I feel like all the time that I spent just to keep up with the pace of FM affected my performance in Biology and Physics and likely got me lower grades in my AS exams for them as a result. I struggled a lot in my Further Maths AS exams so all that work felt like a waste and I am worried that I am likely to get a B/C which is not terrible by any means but my school expects A*'s/A's in FM and the people in y13 that I know that are holding offers from Imperial have an A in further maths as part of their offer.

I will be waiting for my AS maths and further maths exam results til August.

Currently I am predicted A's in Biology and Physics but I am likely to get my physics bumped up to an A* and think I can also bump up Biology to an A* if I beg them and tell them that I am dropping FM so will have much more study time for Bio.

My parents suggest that I drop further maths at A2 and focus on getting the best possible grades that I can for Maths, Physics and Biology at A2. I'm aiming for between A*A*A and A*A*A* Imperial's minimum offers are A*A*A/A*AAA does anyone know if I will even get a look in from universities like Imperial College London for Aeronautical Engineering without further maths. They say that it is strongly encouraged (I assume that because some schools don't offer it they can't say necessary).

I hope that my question does not appear as a humble brag, I am genuinely extremely stressed out about what I should do next. The Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial is my dream course so I just want to maximise my chances of getting in. The environment in my maths department is very toxic and elitist at times. My maths teachers throughout the year said I was clearly not talented in maths despite my work ethic (which they did not believe made up for said lack of talent) and the head of maths said that I had no chance of keeping up with the intensity at Imperial but they seem like overly pessimistic people so I wanted some perspective from some other TSR students/Imperial Engineering Students.
I was predicted A*A*A in Maths, F Maths and Physics and got an interview for imperial civil engineering which I didn’t do well in so I didn’t get an offer
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damn daniel yeah
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I got imperial offer this year for aeronautical I wouldn't worry about getting bumped to A* for physics A will do fine but my offer was an A* for physics. But I would continue doing futhur maths as everyone seems to have it in there offers
(Original post by Proportionality)
Sorry for the essay, TLDR: Just read the title.

For a bit of background, I managed to get a 9 in GCSE Maths to my surprise (I was not very good at maths until year 10) overall I had six 9's, one 8, one 7, an A and one 6. This allowed me to apply to take further maths at my 6th form but I had a lot of resistance as they did not think I was capable, perhaps they were right in the end but I wanted to try first to maximise my chances of going to Imperial for Aeronautical Engineering.

I started year 12 with Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Biology as my A-levels and I worked really hard throughout the year. Y12 was an extremely stressful year for me and I struggled with a lot of sleep issues and anxiety over work and barely had time to socialise since all my free periods and a lot of my free time was spent working, mostly on trying to keep up with FM.

I feel like all the time that I spent just to keep up with the pace of FM affected my performance in Biology and Physics and likely got me lower grades in my AS exams for them as a result. I struggled a lot in my Further Maths AS exams so all that work felt like a waste and I am worried that I am likely to get a B/C which is not terrible by any means but my school expects A*'s/A's in FM and the people in y13 that I know that are holding offers from Imperial have an A in further maths as part of their offer.

I will be waiting for my AS maths and further maths exam results til August.

Currently I am predicted A's in Biology and Physics but I am likely to get my physics bumped up to an A* and think I can also bump up Biology to an A* if I beg them and tell them that I am dropping FM so will have much more study time for Bio.

My parents suggest that I drop further maths at A2 and focus on getting the best possible grades that I can for Maths, Physics and Biology at A2. I'm aiming for between A*A*A and A*A*A* Imperial's minimum offers are A*A*A/A*AAA does anyone know if I will even get a look in from universities like Imperial College London for Aeronautical Engineering without further maths. They say that it is strongly encouraged (I assume that because some schools don't offer it they can't say necessary).

I hope that my question does not appear as a humble brag, I am genuinely extremely stressed out about what I should do next. The Aeronautical Engineering course at Imperial is my dream course so I just want to maximise my chances of getting in. The environment in my maths department is very toxic and elitist at times. My maths teachers throughout the year said I was clearly not talented in maths despite my work ethic (which they did not believe made up for said lack of talent) and the head of maths said that I had no chance of keeping up with the intensity at Imperial but they seem like overly pessimistic people so I wanted some perspective from some other TSR students/Imperial Engineering Students.
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