Low 2:1 and Vacation Schemes Watch

Bashtopher
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#21
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#21
RoF is a strange forum. Totally agree with JohanGRK that it's somewhat unrepresentative. 40% of them are retired, 40% have been in-house for decades and the other 20% have a clue about modern private and public practice. 75% have some weird obsession with bees, and 50% have shagged each other. It's strangely incestuous, and even more oddly outdated. I still lurk though, so I guess that speaks volumes about me.

I certainly find flatlined's and jacketpotato's disagreement far more illuminating in terms of legal practice. The OP has only just finished his first year of uni, and I think an experienced person trying to get them to reconsider a career with a US/MC firm with a few home truths should be valued. I've worked at a top family law firm, and I can tell you that half the trainees work 12-14 hour days, and continue to do so even when they qualify. The NQs pretty much hate their lives and would leave if they weren't getting paid so well and/or knew of a way out. These hours exist as a reality, even at niche boutique firms.

I wanted to join an MC/US firm when I was at university. Thankfully, I made the smart move to first experience the working habits at top firms. The 5 years of experience paralegal-ing/Outdoor Clerking was where I learnt the truth of what flatlined preaches and, simultaneously, ensured I didn't make the same mistake that university me would have made. My priorities have now changed, and I look forward to commencing my training contract with the government, since my low starting salary will be compensated by my almost guaranteed 9-5.

On that note, I'd advise the OP to not only look at MC/US firms. Broaden your search before you commit. The hours are not worth it. Plus, your worries about your grades would be somewhat otiose at mid-to-large regional firms, as well as with the Government Legal Profession.
(Original post by JohanGRK)
Did you mention the MC thing specifically to prove a point? Because I'm not sure that anyone on this thread is impressed by that.

When you start spending actual time on this site you'll realise that TSR caters to a wide range of audiences and that some of the best discussions arise organically. It's one of the reasons why the moderators are more restrained than they could otherwise be.

RoF is packed full of weirdos who think that their time at Ashursts in the 90s is representative of the profession today. Very useful, obviously, but I value having this place as an extra source of info more than I value your obsession with order
Last edited by Bashtopher; 2 weeks ago
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LpoolLawStudent
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#22
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#22
(Original post by flatlined)
The thing that’s weird is you make it out to be just my opinion or that I am a negative person. It’s not that it’s my opinion. It’s a statistical fact.
And it’s borne out of the fact that humans don’t like working 14 hour days doing tedious office work.
I’m not a lone wolf just having a moan.
The OP specifically was talking about US, MC and SC firms. My post is in answer to that.

Would people be better off working at Eversheds in Sheffield? Yeah most people would probably be happier, but there are easier and funner ways to make more money. I would honestly just leave law rather than work at Eversheds without very particular excepting circumstances.
I think the point was that if you don't like your job (which sounds like an understatement) then why don't you do something about it? Although I do get that you want to warn others of the realities (from your experience) of working at the top end of the profession!
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flatlined
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#23
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It's not that I don't like it. It's not that I think it's crap. The vast majority of city lawyers don't like it and think that it's crap.

Why isn't there a huge exodus? Well, there is! As jacketpotato has noted himself before, only a minority remain at big city firms between 3-5 PQE, most leave. But exit options are very poor in city law relative to other professions like accounting, management consultancy, banking, PR, marketing etc. You need a certain level of PQE to be able to get decent in-house jobs. In-house is also much more dead man's shoes so you need to think carefully about going to the right place at the right time. I have already said this. It is also something which is hugely practice area specific - to the extent that no student could possibly understand. To put more colour on it, it's so trite to say that anyone can move to x, y or z at abc level of PQE when they don't know their practice area. I have written about this before. But lev finance, it will take you longer to go in-house than say, M&A. PE M&A is different than M&A in many respects not only in that you are working for funds all day. You do get different experiences. Structured finance is a very difficult one with very limited and rubbish exit options. This stuff is actually pretty complex - wishy washy, you should move to x if you're not enjoying without understanding the nuances of someone's situation is really silly when you do this stuff day to day. I also cannot disclose any more information about my own position than I have done publicly. I have made this point as well.

There are also financial reasons whereby people (like me) having taken out a mortgage etc. and have gotten themselves so deep in a hole, they think screw it, just wait it out another year and pay it off. I've never said I'm doing this forever. But as to why I don't move next week for a job as a postman, it's just ridiculous prattle. It's the same dross about moving to Taylor Wessing or somewhere else I don't want to work - going through the whole hiring process, notice period, and then serving 2-3 years planning my exits in-house when I'm doing it already...

You probably didn't mean to misrepresent me, but this isn't just the "top end of the profession" and I am not just talking about that. It is all crap.
(Original post by LpoolLawStudent)
I think the point was that if you don't like your job (which sounds like an understatement) then why don't you do something about it? Although I do get that you want to warn others of the realities (from your experience) of working at the top end of the profession!
Last edited by flatlined; 1 week ago
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LpoolLawStudent
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#24
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#24
(Original post by flatlined)
It's not that I don't like it. It's not that I think it's crap. The vast majority of city lawyers don't like it and think that it's crap.

Why isn't there a huge exodus? Well, there is! As jacketpotato has noted himself before, only a minority remain at big city firms between 3-5 PQE, most leave. But exit options are very poor in city law relative to other professions like accounting, management consultancy, banking, PR, marketing etc. You need a certain level of PQE to be able to get decent in-house jobs. In-house is also much more dead man's shoes so you need to think carefully about going to the right place at the right time. I have already said this. It is also something which is hugely practice area specific - to the extent that no student could possibly understand. To put more colour on it, it's so trite to say that anyone can move to x, y or z at abc level of PQE when they don't know their practice area. I have written about this before. But lev finance, it will take you longer to go in-house than say, M&A. PE M&A is different than M&A in many respects not only in that you are working for funds all day. You do get different experiences. Structured finance is a very difficult one with very limited and rubbish exit options. This stuff is actually pretty complex - wishy washy, you should move to x if you're not enjoying without understanding the nuances of someone's situation is really silly when you do this stuff day to day. I also cannot disclose any more information about my own position than I have done publicly. I have made this point as well.

There are also financial reasons whereby people (like me) having taken out a mortgage etc. and have gotten themselves so deep in a hole, they think screw it, just wait it out another year and pay it off. I've never said I'm doing this forever. But as to why I don't move next week for a job as a postman, it's just ridiculous prattle. It's the same dross about moving to Taylor Wessing or somewhere else I don't want to work - going through the whole hiring process, notice period, and then serving 2-3 years planning my exits in-house when I'm doing it already...

You probably didn't mean to misrepresent me, but this isn't just the "top end of the profession" and I am not just talking about that. It is all crap.
That's all fair enough. I personally know plenty of solicitors who work in regional/international firms in Liverpool and Manchester who still enjoy their jobs after 10+ years and they earn good money. It's pretty relative to the individual... You won't know it's not for you unless you give it a go, which is the same for almost every type of employment.
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flatlined
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#25
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#25
Why ask me a question just to disagree with me about a topic you know nothing about? It’s not relative to the individual. Do you understand what city law is?
(Original post by LpoolLawStudent)
That's all fair enough. I personally know plenty of solicitors who work in regional/international firms in Liverpool and Manchester who still enjoy their jobs after 10+ years and they earn good money. It's pretty relative to the individual... You won't know it's not for you unless you give it a go, which is the same for almost every type of employment.
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LpoolLawStudent
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#26
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#26
(Original post by flatlined)
Why ask me a question just to disagree with me about a topic you know nothing about? It’s not relative to the individual. Do you understand what city law is?
Why are you so hostile?!
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