2/3 of Tory party members believe certain areas of the UK operate under Sharia Law Watch

James2312
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(Original post by Napp)
I stand by what I said on statistics.
I'm sorry do we have some kind of problem? I havent a clue who or what you are yet you seem to keep prattling on about my supposed stance on antisemitism and evidence? You'll have you remind me as to what rubbish you're talking about?

Again, so what?
No they really arent. You need just go on any online forum to see peoples true views, here for example. Whites/Christians/Jews/Blacks etc. etc. etc. all still have plenty of problems of men claiming to be women and vice versa. It is an appallingly dishonest claim to try and infer that this is some kind of uniquely Muslim attitude.
I'm sure I can find you plenty of native protests about teaching about buggery and transexuals to kids. I certianly have met many people who think its unseemly.
As for white chirstians protesting, need i remind you of the BNP, EDL and their assorted scum? Nevermind the stance of the worlds most powerful religion...The CATHOLIC church.
I never said it was uniquely Muslim.Its certainly a prevalent attitude amongst Muslims though.Name one Islamic country where being gay is allowed or tolerated? Name one European country which stones gay people or kills them? Obviously you can't eliminate all homophobia but the difference is that in most Islamic countries homophobia is enshrined in law.Here it's not.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Napp)
Vague bells are being rung here but i'm afraid i dont bother dedicating every single debate I have on here to memory... They all merge into one after a while.
Great, well now the references I made previously should make more sense and if they don't I've provided a useful link to further jog your memory.

(Original post by Napp)
Yeah i'm afraid i have no memory of you so once again you'll have to refresh my memory on this allegation.
Did you just say you're in favour of antisemitism...?
Looks like someone struggles with their reading, try again, maybe sound it out.

(Original post by Napp)
I not once said i trust a poll, in fact i repeatedly said that. Saying its an indicator is not the same as saying i trust it wholeheartedly. That is a rather crucial difference.
I haven't claimed that you've said you trust it wholeheartedly but you're clearly putting some level of trust into the poll despite wanting to completely disregard one that ran contrary to your opinion last week.
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AngryRedhead
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So do you distrust all of statistics in every area of your life? It is actually quite interesting to study statistics scientifically, as there are lots of different tests and programmes you can use to determine the reliability of raw numbers.

From reading the link I sent you it would appear that in the case of the government study that the participants were self indicating of both their religion and their level of English and the study surveyed 846,000 women in total, quite a big and reliable sample size.
(Original post by Napp)
That is rather my point. It is a common and well known fact that statstics can say anything you want them to say, that goes for government stats as well. Indeed you're right that the Govs one is likely more reliable than whatever organisation this is but by salient point still stands...

Vague bells are being rung here but i'm afraid i dont bother dedicating every single debate I have on here to memory... They all merge into one after a while.
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Napp
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(Original post by James2312)
I never said it was uniquely Muslim.Its certainly a prevalent attitude amongst Muslims though.Name one Islamic country where being gay is allowed or tolerated? Name one European country which stones gay people or kills them? Obviously you can't eliminate all homophobia but the difference is that in most Islamic countries homophobia is enshrined in law.Here it's not.
To a point but then again just because something is notionally legal doesnt mean its accepted. There are plenty of Christian (not Western/European) countries in Afria, Asia etc. that find the idea of gays abhorrent. Just because its not illegal is, in ones view, irrelevant.
As for your comments on executing gays... would you kindly name the ones that actually carry this out .. ones which are advanced i should say so not tin pot dictatorships in africa and the ME.

With all this being said i think we're talking about two separate topics. I'm talking on a global scale you seem to be talking solely about the west?
(Original post by Underscore__)
Great, well now the references I made previously should make more sense and if they don't I've provided a useful link to further jog your memory.
Thank you for that but you'll forgive me if i dont go and look through an entire thread...
Looks like someone struggles with their reading, try again, maybe sound it out.
Is that really the best you can attempt? A child little insult? Pathetic
I haven't claimed that you've said you trust it wholeheartedly but you're clearly putting some level of trust into the poll despite wanting to completely disregard one that ran contrary to your opinion last week
You seem to be assuming things again. As i've said countless times (and apparently you need reminding of) When you assume things it makes an ass out of you.
As to this poll? I dont need to put trust in it, in of itself, the fact the tories openly have admitted they have a problem with hating Muslims makes it a fact, unlike your equally (if not more) biased opinion poll.
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Napp
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(Original post by AngryRedhead)
So do you distrust all of statistics in every area of your life? It is actually quite interesting to study statistics scientifically, as there are lots of different tests and programmes you can use to determine the reliability of raw numbers.
It is more i distrust their application. Then again I have usually come into ocntact with them from finance and politics which both have a propensity to abuse statists so i will readily admit my opinion is somewhat jaded.
From reading the link I sent you it would appear that in the case of the government study that the participants were self indicating of both their religion and their level of English and the study surveyed 846,000 women in total, quite a big and reliable sample size.
I'll give the article a further read in due course.
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limetang
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(Original post by The RAR)
Retards, couldn't care less about their retarded opinions. Britain is clearly not operating under Sharia law
That’s not what they said though is it? They said some parts of Britain were operating under sharia law. Which to an extent is true, sharia councils/tribunals/arbitrators do exist.

The extent to which this is a problem or an overreach is up for debate, but they’re not wrong to say it
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chazwomaq
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(Original post by Napp)

And your point is...?
My point is 2/3 of Tory members seem to be correct...to an extent.
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Napp
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(Original post by chazwomaq)
My point is 2/3 of Tory members seem to be correct...to an extent.
A questionable view to take but it is of course your right to do so.
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AngryRedhead
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(Original post by Napp)
It is more i distrust their application. Then again I have usually come into ocntact with them from finance and politics which both have a propensity to abuse statists so i will readily admit my opinion is somewhat jaded.

I'll give the article a further read in due course.
Sometimes I can see how they can be used to be misleading, take classic medical studies on risks of cancer. Sometimes you get a study on the risk of cancer from say, smoking and it says something like smoking increases your risk by 70% or something. But it fails to mention your risk prior to smoking, it could have been something low like 16%. So 70% of 16 is 11.2 so the overall risk is 27.2. So they make it seem scarier than it actually is.

That’s not to say that smoking is a good idea or that it doesn’t increase your risk of cancer (I’ve just pulled these numbers out of my ass here) but it’s helpful to have the whole set of data
Last edited by AngryRedhead; 2 weeks ago
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z-hog
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(Original post by limetang)
The extent to which this is a problem or an overreach is up for debate, but they’re not wrong to say it
That's right but because the objective of the poll is to create the impression of a major Islamophobic problem within the Tory party it all gets the treatment.
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limetang
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(Original post by z-hog)
That's right but because the objective of the poll is to create the impression of a major Islamophobic problem within the Tory party it all gets the treatment.
I mean blatantly. It baffles me why the idea that "Sharia Courts" exist is a controversial one. Sharia tribunals OPENLY exist http://www.matribunal.com (for example).
Is there anything wrong or illegal in two parties who happen to be muslims entering into arbitration with an arbiter who understands and will arbitrate in line with their religion? Not necessarily. COULD societal pressures force people to enter into this arbitration against their better judgement? Absolutely. Could these sorts of organisations end up operating beyond what they are legally allowed to? Sure.

The key problem though is that these "sharia courts" don't operate openly (arbitration whether sharia or not is pretty much always done behind closed doors and is notorious for lacking any sort of justice if it happens to have been done badly/unfairly). I would have thought though that in a country of approximately 3.3m muslims, there will be some scope for abuse happening here.
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ThatJosh
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I remember reading about UKIP and far-right entryism into the Tory party, and stories like this just make me think the issue is bigger than first imagined..
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Jebedee
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Nice game of Chinese whisper op.

How did "2/3 tories believe that there are areas governed by sharia law" become "2/3 tories believe we live under sharia law"?

Would you like to correct your title?
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Jebedee)
Nice game of Chinese whisper op.

How did "2/3 tories believe that there are areas governed by sharia law" become "2/3 tories believe we live under sharia law"?

Would you like to correct your title?
No area in the UK operates under Sharia Law, though. Still nothing to write home about.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Napp)
Thank you for that but you'll forgive me if i dont go and look through an entire thread...
I'm not asking you to read the whole thread, I've just provided a helpful link so that if any references I make don't make sense you know where to look.

(Original post by Napp)
Is that really the best you can attempt? A child little insult? Pathetic
Well you either couldn't read me repeating the phrase you used: anti-antisemitism or you wilfully misrepresented what I said. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt as assuming you wouldn't be wilfully dishonest.

(Original post by Napp)
You seem to be assuming things again. As i've said countless times (and apparently you need reminding of) When you assume things it makes an ass out of you.
I suggest you look up that phrase again, it seems you missed the last part. Hint: ass-u-me

What exactly am I assuming?

(Original post by Napp)
As to this poll? I dont need to put trust in it, in of itself, the fact the tories openly have admitted they have a problem with hating Muslims makes it a fact, unlike your equally (if not more) biased opinion poll.
When did the Tories admit to hating Muslims?
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limetang
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
No area in the UK operates under Sharia Law, though. Still nothing to write home about.
There are adherents to Sharia Law in the UK and there are councils and arbitration services that the muslim community use to settle legal disputes in alignment with Sharia law (granted use of these services is totally optional, though there may be some cultural pressure to use them).

I don't think anybody is seriously claiming that some of the British courts of law operate under Sharia Law.

On a technical level you're correct. The UK operates entirely under British law by definition. On a practical level, yes some areas do operate under Sharia law (in varying degrees of strictness).
Last edited by limetang; 2 weeks ago
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by 3121)
This is because of the abuse many suffered in the 70s and 80s, they isolated themselves in their own communities and grew in their own environment, with a hatered for ‘white people’ because of how they were treated. Many Muslims come here looking forward to integrate but then struggle to fit in with culture due to rejection and differences.
I don't buy it.

So many other minority communities were also treated awfully, and yet haven't secluded themselves away anywhere near as much as islamic communities have.

Sure these days, Islamic people face more prejudice then most other minorities, but back in the 70s, most english people had no idea about islam.. they just knew you by your color or accent, and no matter where you were from you were treated pretty badly. Yet a lot of other groups have managed to ingratiate well?

I suspect the ideology has more to do with it then your letting on.
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by Napp)
I can assure you it is..
Attachment 833648
Ermmm near 11am
"2/3 of Tory party believe we live under sharia law"
"2/3rd of tory members believe UK areas 'under sharia law'"

There is a big difference in meaning between these two. Hence why the other poster was correctly suggesting that your bending the articles title to make your own more sensational.
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fallen_acorns
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As for the actual article..

the tory members are of course wrong, no areas in the UK are controlled by Sharia law..

There are plenty of people in the Uk who live under self or community enforced sharia law, but there are no 'areas' that are under it.
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limetang
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
As for the actual article..

the tory members are of course wrong, no areas in the UK are controlled by Sharia law..

There are plenty of people in the Uk who live under self or community enforced sharia law, but there are no 'areas' that are under it.
A distinction without a difference and you know it. There exist areas that are majority Muslim, the majority of Muslims in those areas adhere to sharia law and have arbitrators etc that enforece said law. Those areas are under sharia law.
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