NHS going once, twice and Sold Watch

Satyr
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Would Boris Johnson sell the NHS if he came into power? Boris Johnson looks like at this stage he would do anything to get a deal with the US and the US want the NHS to be sold if a trade deal was negotiated, so would Boris Johnson sell the NHS just to get a trade deal with the US or not?
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fallen_acorns
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its unlikely, both parties have made it very clear that they are against it, and both know that its electoral suicide. There is no more holy a cow in the UK then the NHS, no party could survive selling it off or large parts of it.
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Satyr
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sold (:bump: )
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Moose-er
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Personally I support partial privatisation but I doubt any PM would fully privatise the NHS, not even Boris. Heck even Margaret 'The free Market is God' Thatcher kept her hands off it for the most part. Also no PM would be able to pass such a decision through parliament
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ByEeek
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It's kind of irrelivant. Most of the "profitable" bits have already been sold. I am due to undertake a procedure in a few weeks at a private clinic courtesy of the NHS. And part of the money spent on my behalf will go into someone's pocket as profit.
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Satyr
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I think that ByEeek has said that partial privatisation has already occured.
(Original post by Moose-er)
Personally I support partial privatisation but I doubt any PM would fully privatise the NHS, not even Boris. Heck even Margaret 'The free Market is God' Thatcher kept her hands off it for the most part. Also no PM would be able to pass such a decision through parliament
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Moose-er)
Personally I support paI rtial privatisation but I doubt any PM would fully privatise the NHS, not even Boris. Heck even Margaret 'The free Market is God' Thatcher kept her hands off it for the most part. Also no PM would be able to pass such a decision through parliament
There was a full privatisation attempt of an NHS trust in the East Midlands, I think either under Brown or Cameron. However after costing millions in over runs and missing targets by a country mile, it was bought back into public hands.

The problem with a private franchise model as used in that instance is that providers bid to deliver x units of healthcare for a fixed price. The cheapest provider who has usually under bid wins and then when x+y units of care turn up the whole thing folds. Of course it is worth considering the insurance route but with that in mind, the US spends about a third to double on less healthcare per head of population.
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L i b
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(Original post by Satyr)
Would Boris Johnson sell the NHS if he came into power? Boris Johnson looks like at this stage he would do anything to get a deal with the US and the US want the NHS to be sold if a trade deal was negotiated, so would Boris Johnson sell the NHS just to get a trade deal with the US or not?
You do realise what having the NHS "on the table" in a trade deal means, yeah?

It means that NHS procurement contracts can be won by American firms on equal terms with British ones. This is the system, within the EU, that we already have by law with 27 other member-states from Bulgaria to Portugal.

I don't have the slightest problem with this.
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L i b
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(Original post by ByEeek)
It's kind of irrelivant. Most of the "profitable" bits have already been sold. I am due to undertake a procedure in a few weeks at a private clinic courtesy of the NHS. And part of the money spent on my behalf will go into someone's pocket as profit.
Is that a problem to you? After all, I don't really mind my dentist or my GP being driven by lining their own pockets - they're not treating me out of the goodness of their hearts.
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imperium_viribus
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(Original post by L i b)
You do realise what having the NHS "on the table" in a trade deal means, yeah?

It means that NHS procurement contracts can be won by American firms on equal terms with British ones. This is the system, within the EU, that we already have by law with 27 other member-states from Bulgaria to Portugal.

I don't have the slightest problem with this.
It's astonishing how so many people are unable to differentiate between the actual selloff of equity ("privatisation") of the NHS which is never happening from the outsourcing of contracts to do services for the NHS. I couldn't care less if the company is American or French, if it does a good job for good value for money, then I'm all for them getting the contract.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by L i b)
Is that a problem to you? After all, I don't really mind my dentist or my GP being driven by lining their own pockets - they're not treating me out of the goodness of their hearts.
Yes it does. I have moved from the private to public sectors. I am now a teacher. I teach because a care. My job makes a difference. The money in the private sector was miles better but my life now is vastly better because my job has values at its heart. If society was more about giving than taking, everyone would be happier and we would all be better off.

In our society it is each for their own and everyone is fighting to take whatvthey can. Except there is plenty to go around.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Moose-er)
Personally I support partial privatisation but I doubt any PM would fully privatise the NHS, not even Boris. Heck even Margaret 'The free Market is God' Thatcher kept her hands off it for the most part. Also no PM would be able to pass such a decision through parliament
Which bits would you privatise? How would the benefit the NHS and the UK?
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L i b
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Yes it does. I have moved from the private to public sectors. I am now a teacher. I teach because a care. My job makes a difference. The money in the private sector was miles better but my life now is vastly better because my job has values at its heart. If society was more about giving than taking, everyone would be happier and we would all be better off.

In our society it is each for their own and everyone is fighting to take whatvthey can. Except there is plenty to go around.
It does strike me that for such generous souls, teachers seem to be one of the groups in society most often threatening industrial action over wages.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by L i b)
It does strike me that for such generous souls, teachers seem to be one of the groups in society most often threatening industrial action over wages.
Not true at all. Teachers have not striked en mass since the 80s. And pay isn't really an issue. It is workload and accountability that are the major issue.

But most teachers give loads more over and above. I am spending my weekend supervising our DofE students. I am not being paid and won't be claiming expenses because there is no money to pay expenses. I do it because I want the kids in my school to have the same opportunities I did. As do most teachers, certainly in my school.
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Quady
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Not true at all. Teachers have not striked en mass since the 80s. And pay isn't really an issue. It is workload and accountability that are the major issue.

But most teachers give loads more over and above. I am spending my weekend supervising our DofE students. I am not being paid and won't be claiming expenses because there is no money to pay expenses. I do it because I want the kids in my school to have the same opportunities I did. As do most teachers, certainly in my school.
So the NUT strike in April 2008 was fake news...?

NUE and the NASUWT voted to give a mandate for strikes last year.

EIS were due to strike this March, called off after the respective pay deal was improved...
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Quady)
So the NUT strike in April 2008 was fake news...?

NUE and the NASUWT voted to give a mandate for strikes last year.

EIS were due to strike this March, called off after the respective pay deal was improved...
Of course it was real. But only affected one union and only 32% of members voted in favour. Hardly an all out strike. Such a thing is unlikely to happen these days. Disenfrancised teachers are more likely to leave the profession than strike. Things may however change if the economy takes a turn for the worse.
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Quady
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Of course it was real. But only affected one union and only 32% of members voted in favour. Hardly an all out strike. Such a thing is unlikely to happen these days. Disenfrancised teachers are more likely to leave the profession than strike. Things may however change if the economy takes a turn for the worse.
Not all out, but was 'en mass' as you put it.

The EIS strike would've been all out.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by L i b)
Is that a problem to you? After all, I don't really mind my dentist or my GP being driven by lining their own pockets - they're not treating me out of the goodness of their hearts.
Yes it does and you miss the point, it's the private companies owned by the shareholders that are having their pockets lined. More than likely never seen a operating theatre!

The medical staff will be paid a salary based on supply and demand of labour, that's how the private sector works.
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yes it does and you miss the point, it's the private companies owned by the shareholders that are having their pockets lined. More than likely never seen a operating theatre!

The medical staff will be paid a salary based on supply and demand of labour, that's how the private sector works.
It doesn't miss the point, you seem to have.

GPs and dentists are the shareholders of the private companies they work for.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
It doesn't miss the point, you seem to have.

GPs and dentists are the shareholders of the private companies they work for.
No I have not, I said medical staff not GP's, who last time I checked are not surgeons, consultants and as for dentists, I can tell you not all, a good friend of mine is a dentist, his boss has far less medical training than he!

Im missing no point at all, privatisation of public services lines the pockets of company owners with tax payers money, money that should be spent on the NHS!
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