Poland and Hungary a threat to the EU and Western Values?

here's your burden of proof https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/hungary-s-leader-urges-europe-to-reject-liberal-values-and-immigration-1.3827401
and if that isn't enough, look how his actions have changed since he got into power https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/26/viktor-orban-ally-hungary-courageous-democrat
read it all, read the part where their popularly ELECTED politician expresses admiration for China and Russia's authoritarian regimes and his desire for such a system in Europe


this is real - this is what is happening now, he takes credit for improvements made by EU funds, yet has done everything in his power to undermine EU values - and not just him, Poland's ruling party too - I'm sure you heard about the whole polish judicial reforms thing all over the news a few months ago - you know what that's about? it was about giving more power to their political party by allowing it to manipulate the Justice system - you still don't think they're a threat to EU values? you still think this is just politics? you still think this will just go away? you still think this push towards authoritarianism isn't a threat to the EU?

The simple fact is eastern Europe's mentality is different from the west - they are close minded people who are afraid of any sort of change or different things
This is not something that is desirable in an increasingly globalized world

You know - they say the exact same thing as you, just about muslims/africans.

again stop with the anecdotes - what you're showing me are uneducated economic immigrants that exploited the EU's welcoming of refugees

If they made it into the EU it is due to bad management -

If you want to see a real refugee go talk to the new Syrian kids at your school, because they were the ones the EU welcomed

unless you're implying these syrian families were the ones who raped and terrorized Europe?

sweet sweet irony

also give me a ****ing break, you and I and everyone knows that eastern Europeans are regressive when it comes to race relations and social progressiveness

your second article is irrelevant to my point - The first one is interesting, but I still wouldn't call it a threat.

If a Christian missionary knocks on your door, and "urges" you to become a christian.. but then does nothing when you say 'no thanks' - is he threatening you? or is he a threat to you?

Now if he came back with a gun, and made you convert.. sure, but just saying things to you, and trying to pursuade you to convert?

(I express admiration for the Chinese regime by the way, they do awful things, but they also do a whole lot of good for a lot of people)

Having a desire for something - doesn't make them a threat
Taking credit for EU funds - doesn't make them a threat
Internal political issuse within the countries, no matter how unfair or awful for their own citizens - doesn't make them a threat.
Internally becoming more authoratarian - doesn't make them a threat (authoratarian isn't synomyous with agressive or expansionary or anything threatening)

I think your getting to hung up on the word threat.. if you just said "Ok, maybe threat was the wrong word.. but I really think they aren't compatabile with european values and I strongly disagree with what they are doing". Then I would 100% agree. I don't think they are compatable with western europe, and it was a mistake to invite them into the EU. I also disagree with a lot of what they are doing...

(but to label them a 'threat' is just wrong... they pose no threat at all to us in the UK, or to the EU as a whole)

modern day east germany is still miles better than modern poland


(source: https://merchantmachine.co.uk/east-germany-vs-europe/)

why?

why would I hate poles? I already said my best friend is a pole - I can hate their ideals, same way I have Muslim friends but am not a fan of Islam

I guess this is where we reach an impasse - it always becomes an argument of authoritarian vs libertarian

If someone (particularly if that someone is the government) threatens my liberty I will not just stand by and dismiss his threats as nothing - you on the other hand seem fine with it, I can't argue with a person who does not care for liberty

and I'd rather live in Uganda than China - I'd rather be dead than under red

"If someone threatens my liberty" - does their existence threaten their liberty? Because so far you haven't been able to show that they have taken any action to try and reduce your liberty at all... bar complaining about liberals and the EU (if that threatens your liberty, you must feel constantly near death, given how many people in the UK complain about liberals and the EU..)

Worth remembering with China - they have brought more people out of abject poverty then any other country in human history. Half a billion people have gone from starving, to having a decent quality of life, within the last 40 years. Do they do awful things as well? yes.. but the existance of the awful, doesn't mean that the good disappears. A grandparent grew up under japanese torture and occupation.. a parent grew up starving and struggling for food.. and now the kid is prospering, owning a nice car, living in a nice flat, with stable jobs, enough food and a great quality of life. The reality on the ground in China is, even without the propaganda, most Chinese people love their goverment, and for very good reason.

aah, so you're a nationalist

I guess the same logic you use to paint immigrants as rapists and terrorists

generalizations exist for a reason

I'm done wasting my time

You seem like a very low iq individual

I'm sure Poland will become a superpower soon enough

My IQ has twice been tested psychologists and once on my own, it's over 130.