Brexit party compared to Nazis after Ode to Joy snub Watch

Burton Bridge
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Napp)
My my you're a frightfully rude person arent you.
I'm not certain you know what that is.

Are you being intentionally dense or do you just not like the validity of the point?
You said they were elected to refuse to... blah blah blah, its not exactly a leap of logic to move to that.
That probably because you havent a clue about the similarities. Did you even bother reading my point or are you just jumping up and down in a fit of pique?

Strangely enough because thats the bit i wanted to address :rolleyes:

Err remind me what the turnout for those elections was...? Hardly "the British public". Which is rather what my last point was. Don't attempt to call rather small minorities of the electorate representative of Britain.

Thats less a definition than an overview and bears absolutely no relation to the vast gulf between the various forms democracy takes. If you call a 30% turnout (for example) democratically representative.. well.

Yes and running through the streets with George crosses painted on you demanding foreigners get out is real mature
Is this seriously the best you can do? Your pathetic little reply has been nothing but a series of personal attacks and for no reason at all. But no I disagree with you because you come across as an offensive little boy who gets very upset if anyone has a different opinion to his own and can thus only resort to peculiar insults. I mean its touching but nevertheless, not particularly conducive to an actual debate.

However, if all you can do is stomp your feet and be abusive because you cant handle a real debate one will bid you adieu.
I'm rude by correctly pointing out you are using a whataboutery arugement, then in your next statement you call me 'dense'. The Irony bell has just cracked you rang it so loud

I knew I was feeding you but I have you the benifit of the doubt, enjoy the game you play
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nulli tertius
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Exactly, the Lib Dems pathetic display was embarrassing! The brexit party well they have been democratically elected to refuse to acknowledge the EUs power and push for Brexit. However I just think it was a little childish. Personally I think if they had not done this, it would of looked so much better for brexiteers, particularly with the lib dens, their opposition only with half their MEPs, acting like school children!
If there is a ranking list of bad publicity stunts the Brexit Party stunt was worse than the Liberal Democrat stunt simply because the former was more childishly eyecatching.

As to "refuse to acknowledge the EU's power" there will have been official guests from non-EU countries in the chamber. Do you think any of them refused to stand facing forwards? If they really could bear to be there and act properly, they shouldn't have taken their seats until after the anthem.

A more nerdish question: what was the woman singing? It clearly wasn't "Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium" and I don't think it was "Est Europa nunc unita, et unita maneat" which would have been somewhat embarrassing in the circumstances.
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BeetRoots
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#63
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You have skipped around the points in question

So why are you OK with lies told by the remain campaign? Also why are you labelling factual statements as lies just because you don't like the message?
The NHS bus was a lie, in fact even the Brexiteers themselves have distanced themselves from the claim since they won the referendum. Farage, of course, and the Tory Brexiteers don't actually believe in the NHS, they want it destroyed and replaced with entirely private get-what-you-can-pay-for medical help, i.e. rich get the best, poor get nothing. These Brexiteers are horrible people, they don't for one moment care for British society, they are counting on Brexit' to help their private financial interests grow by the repeal of EU based legislation for things like minimum wage, health and safety protections, environmental protections. Evil, evil people.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
If there is a ranking list of bad publicity stunts the Brexit Party stunt was worse than the Liberal Democrat stunt simply because the former was more childishly eyecatching.
Well I think that's open to opinion/debate. I certainly disagree but agree the shirts was childish!

(Original post by nulli tertius)
As to "refuse to acknowledge the EU's power" there will have been official guests from non-EU countries in the chamber. Do you think any of them refused to stand facing forwards? If they really could bear to be there and act properly, they shouldn't have taken their seats until after the anthem.
I agree, I wish they had never done it. It would of spoke louder if they had not, being the largest party in Europe a few weeks old, speaks for its self. What it did was devalue lib dem and the Brexit parties position in my opinion.


(Original post by nulli tertius)
A more nerdish question: what was the woman singing? It clearly wasn't "Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium" and I don't think it was "Est Europa nunc unita, et unita maneat" which would have been somewhat embarrassing in the circumstances.
Lol not a clue mate
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
The NHS bus was a lie, in fact even the Brexiteers themselves have distanced themselves from the claim since they won the referendum. Farage, of course, and the Tory Brexiteers don't actually believe in the NHS, they want it destroyed and replaced with entirely private get-what-you-can-pay-for medical help, i.e. rich get the best, poor get nothing. These Brexiteers are horrible people, they don't for one moment care for British society, they are counting on Brexit' to help their private financial interests grow by the repeal of EU based legislation for things like minimum wage, health and safety protections, environmental protections. Evil, evil people.
With respect you are getting overly emotional and confused on several issues. If you are looking for someone to disagree with you that the tories don't believe in the NHS, it's not going to be me. Trust me, I wrote the book about hating tory ideals. If you think we have the minimum wage, health and safety laws and workers rights from the EU you are grossly misinformed, labour gave us these things, just as it gave us social housing, the NHS etc.

However all of this is irrelevant to the issue we are talking about. You still avoided the question on if you condone lies by the remain camp or not? I think I know why however on the bus, what you actually mean is you disagree with him and you prefer a different figure! In 2015, which was the year before the referendum so very relevant in the Boris Johnson case, our gross contribution to the EU was 19billion 560 Million GBP. That actually works out at 376 million pounds per week, which actually means Borris understated the amount of UK tax money the UK has no control over!

The fact you dislike this is neither here nor there it's factually correct. If you disagree with someone's opinion you are welcome to challenge it which it was previous to the referendum, even Jacob Rees-Mogg said he preferred the net figure. Anyway freedom of opinion is important you are welcome too take this on board and vote against them, that's how political figures are held accountable.

When I was younger I used to think the tories was evil, now I understand a little more about the world/politics, I understand this mentally is not helpful. In any case Brexit is not a left and right issue, I said this to you 3 times but you seem to be missing it or not understanding what I mean.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
With respect you are getting overly emotional and confused on several issues. If you are looking for someone to disagree with you that the tories don't believe in the NHS, it's not going to be me. Trust me, I wrote the book about hating tory ideals. If you think we have the minimum wage, health and safety laws and workers rights from the EU you are grossly misinformed, labour gave us these things, just as it gave us social housing, the NHS etc.

However all of this is irrelevant to the issue we are talking about. You still avoided the question on if you condone lies by the remain camp or not? I think I know why however on the bus, what you actually mean is you disagree with him and you prefer a different figure! In 2015, which was the year before the referendum so very relevant in the Boris Johnson case, our gross contribution to the EU was 19billion 560 Million GBP. That actually works out at 376 million pounds per week, which actually means Borris understated the amount of UK tax money the UK has no control over!

The fact you dislike this is neither here nor there it's factually correct. If you disagree with someone's opinion you are welcome to challenge it which it was previous to the referendum, even Jacob Rees-Mogg said he preferred the net figure. Anyway freedom of opinion is important you are welcome too take this on board and vote against them, that's how political figures are held accountable.

When I was younger I used to think the tories was evil, now I understand a little more about the world/politics, I understand this mentally is not helpful. In any case Brexit is not a left and right issue, I said this to you 3 times but you seem to be missing it or not understanding what I mean.
Brexiteers are awful, they have lied about the NHS funding cynically, these people despise the NHS, they laugh and sneer at the poor while telling them how they are going to 'get their country back'. Awful, this is a betrayal that will last several generations. I take some comfort in the possibility we'll have a watered down Brexit' which will cause Farage's head to explode. Hard Brexit'? The only good to come out of it is that will weaken the Tory party, possibly even destroy it. I hate them as much as the Brexiteers.
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ColinDent
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
Brexiteers are awful, they have lied about the NHS funding cynically, these people despise the NHS, they laugh and sneer at the poor while telling them how they are going to 'get their country back'. Awful, this is a betrayal that will last several generations. I take some comfort in the possibility we'll have a watered down Brexit' which will cause Farage's head to explode. Hard Brexit'? The only good to come out of it is that will weaken the Tory party, possibly even destroy it. I hate them as much as the Brexiteers.
Brexiteers laugh and sneer at the poor? The only people that have been doing that are the middle class remainers who try to tell us we are wrong for thinking the way we do, and yes I would class myself working class.
We are fed up of liberals and pseudo socialists telling us how to eat, think , speak and breathe, and above all we are fed up of being **** on by neo-liberalistic corporations that are aided and abetted by the EU.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Brexiteers laugh and sneer at the poor? The only people that have been doing that are the middle class remainers who try to tell us we are wrong for thinking the way we do, and yes I would class myself working class.
We are fed up of liberals and pseudo socialists telling us how to eat, think , speak and breathe, and above all we are fed up of being **** on by neo-liberalistic corporations that are aided and abetted by the EU.
Farage can't wait to see the NHS dismantled for a private system, like I say, these Brexiteers are pure evil.
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Merridan
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Brexiteers laugh and sneer at the poor? The only people that have been doing that are the middle class remainers who try to tell us we are wrong for thinking the way we do, and yes I would class myself working class.
We are fed up of liberals and pseudo socialists telling us how to eat, think , speak and breathe, and above all we are fed up of being **** on by neo-liberalistic corporations that are aided and abetted by the EU.
I wish I could rep you twice for this post....But I can't

What I shall do is post a link:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/0...-to-the-nazis/

"Perhaps the worst thing about the ‘Nazi’ screams at the Brexit Party yesterday is the way this normalises the Nazis. This is the most nauseating side-effect of today’s constant use of the ‘fascist’ slur and the never-ending warnings that Europe is sliding back into the 1930s – the fact that it drains away the uniqueness of the Nazi era, the sheer horror of it, and makes it appear as just another political period, not unlike our own. This relativisation of the era of the Holocaust is a crime against historical truth."

and further:

"The BP’s MEPs turned their backs as the EU’s ‘national anthem’ started to play. And according to certain Remainers, such antics are akin to Nazism, echoing the behaviour of National Socialists in the Reichstag in the 1930s, and generally proving that Brexit Britain is a dark and scary hellhole vomiting up the worst politicians the world has seen since the darkest days of the mid-20th century."

"This was a perfect example of a furious, spluttering condemnation telling us far more about the person doing the condemning than about the people he or she is condemning. In this case, Remoaners’ shrill and illiterate screech of ‘NAZIS’ at the Brexit Party for staging a political stunt tells us nothing whatsoever about the Brexit Party but loads and loads about the increasingly on-edge Remainer set."

"It tells us how distant they now are from people who think differently to them; how bitter and convulsed with fury they have become as democratic politics has dared to go in a direction they disapprove of; and how little they care for historical accuracy and truth."

And I reiterate:
the Remainers have
Lost
The
Plot!!!
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QE2
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(Original post by BlueIndigoViolet)
Dear God... hate Brexit by every stretch of the imagination, but as elected representatives of the Brexit Party, they do not need to in any way associate with the anthem, and have every right to refuse to acknowledge it and push for Brexit, comparisons to Nazis are desperate and unbecoming of actual political debate.
I don't think people are saying the Brexit Party MEPs are Nazis, just that they acted in the same way that the Nazis did. You have to admit that the resemblance is somewhat striking. Perhaps it's just a matter of them being not very astute and not thinking things through properly. After all, they are the Brexit Party!
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
Brexiteers are awful, they have lied about the NHS funding cynically, these people despise the NHS, they laugh and sneer at the poor while telling them how they are going to 'get their country back'. Awful, this is a betrayal that will last several generations. I take some comfort in the possibility we'll have a watered down Brexit' which will cause Farage's head to explode. Hard Brexit'? The only good to come out of it is that will weaken the Tory party, possibly even destroy it. I hate them as much as the Brexiteers.
You are just spouting off with no rhyme nor reason, the context of what you are saying is also very single minded if not bigoted.

Based on you're posts everyone who believes in a life outside of Europe is awful or worse
I don't understand why you are having so much trouble answer the question about lies, why are you finding it so difficult to condem remain campaign lies? You claim to be
repulsed by lies but have so far quoted the bus which as I pointed out was not a lie and defended a lie told by the leaders of the remain campaign - why are you avoiding the question ?

Why do you keep talking about your hatred for anyone who supports Brexit, mainly working class poor areas I might add. Can I ask you if the following people are evil with no care of the poor and needy also;
-Tony Benn
-Dennis Skinner
-George Galloway
-Jeremy Corbyn
-Graham Stringer
-John Mills
-Frank feild

And many many more left wing people.

Now the problem with the hard core remainers is a lack of knowledge of the whole European situation, or if its not a lack of knowledge I'm afraid it is sheer bigotry. Mainly middle class/young inexperienced people pretending to have a care for the working class people/poor people however when challenged about what their EU funded has taught them, or what they see from the safety of their middle class suburb, they attack the poorest before explaining what they actually mean.

Prove me wrong, answer the questions. You are talking to a midland burn and bred socialist who supports Brexit.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You are just spouting off with no rhyme nor reason, the context of what you are saying is also very single minded if not bigoted.

Based on you're posts everyone who believes in a life outside of Europe is awful or worse
I don't understand why you are having so much trouble answer the question about lies, why are you finding it so difficult to condem remain campaign lies? You claim to be
repulsed by lies but have so far quoted the bus which as I pointed out was not a lie and defended a lie told by the leaders of the remain campaign - why are you avoiding the question ?

Why do you keep talking about your hatred for anyone who supports Brexit, mainly working class poor areas I might add. Can I ask you if the following people are evil with no care of the poor and needy also;
-Tony Benn
-Dennis Skinner
-George Galloway
-Jeremy Corbyn
-Graham Stringer
-John Mills
-Frank feild

And many many more left wing people.

Now the problem with the hard core remainers is a lack of knowledge of the whole European situation, or if its not a lack of knowledge I'm afraid it is sheer bigotry. Mainly middle class/young inexperienced people pretending to have a care for the working class people/poor people however when challenged about what their EU funded has taught them, or what they see from the safety of their middle class suburb, they attack the poorest before explaining what they actually mean.

Prove me wrong, answer the questions. You are talking to a midland burn and bred socialist who supports Brexit.
The NHS bus stunt was essentially a cynical lie.
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QE2
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
With respect you are getting overly emotional and confused on several issues. If you are looking for someone to disagree with you that the tories don't believe in the NHS, it's not going to be me. Trust me, I wrote the book about hating tory ideals. If you think we have the minimum wage, health and safety laws and workers rights from the EU you are grossly misinformed, labour gave us these things, just as it gave us social housing, the NHS etc.

However all of this is irrelevant to the issue we are talking about. You still avoided the question on if you condone lies by the remain camp or not? I think I know why however on the bus, what you actually mean is you disagree with him and you prefer a different figure! In 2015, which was the year before the referendum so very relevant in the Boris Johnson case, our gross contribution to the EU was 19billion 560 Million GBP. That actually works out at 376 million pounds per week, which actually means Borris understated the amount of UK tax money the UK has no control over!

The fact you dislike this is neither here nor there it's factually correct. If you disagree with someone's opinion you are welcome to challenge it which it was previous to the referendum, even Jacob Rees-Mogg said he preferred the net figure. Anyway freedom of opinion is important you are welcome too take this on board and vote against them, that's how political figures are held accountable.

When I was younger I used to think the tories was evil, now I understand a little more about the world/politics, I understand this mentally is not helpful. In any case Brexit is not a left and right issue, I said this to you 3 times but you seem to be missing it or not understanding what I mean.
You claim to hate the Tories yet defend and fawn over arch Tories like Johnson and Mogg.
You claim to be pro working class, welfare and rights yet support a political process specifically designed to erode those things.
You really haven't got a clue what you are on about. Brexit is simply the single issue of "them bloody immigrants" for you, as you demonstrated some while ago.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
The NHS bus stunt was essentially a cynical lie.
Again you avoid answering the question, that interesting, for the 5th time of asking
'Why are you finding it so difficult to condem remain campaign lies?'

You are wrong, the print on the side of the bus was factually accurate, it did not say all the money would go to the NHS. I would agree it was misleading, however the tories have just made huge sum available to the NHS anyway so, what do you make of that?
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QE2
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(Original post by ColinDent)
Brexiteers laugh and sneer at the poor? The only people that have been doing that are the middle class remainers who try to tell us we are wrong for thinking the way we do, and yes I would class myself working class.
You are wrong for believing that Brexit will help the average working person or the country in general. That is not laughing and sneering. You were conned. Get over it.
What people will ridicule is when you steadfastly refuse to accept evidence, reason and logic and insist that the emperor really is wearing a splendid new uniform.

We are fed up of liberals and pseudo socialists telling us how to eat, think , speak and breathe, and above all we are fed up of being **** on by neo-liberalistic corporations that are aided and abetted by the EU.
You have no idea what this actually means, if anything, do you? (This is where laughter and sneering are now appropriate. I am currently doing both)
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by QE2)
I don't think people are saying the Brexit Party MEPs are Nazis, just that they acted in the same way that the Nazis did. You have to admit that the resemblance is somewhat striking. Perhaps it's just a matter of them being not very astute and not thinking things through properly. After all, they are the Brexit Party!
Oh come on, what type of cognitive dissonance is this? if someone posted a picture of corbyn and stalin side by side with very simmilar poses saying "Corbyn looks like Stalin" you think the underlying message of that is just 'oh huh they have the same pose' nothing else
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Oh come on, what type of cognitive dissonance is this? if someone posted a picture of corbyn and stalin side by side with very simmilar poses saying "Corbyn looks like Stalin" you think the underlying message of that is just 'oh huh they have the same pose' nothing else
Pmsl, I'm not missing anything then, ignore list mate. I've got no time for fake socialists. He will play the race card on you soon, even though nobody has mentioned anything to do with it!

Corbyn is the most vilified political figure, its a shame poltics is coming to what it is. If we can't have a sensible debate with out the badge blind or blind insults being thrown around then we are all going to hell in a handcart.
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AperfectBalance
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Pmsl, I'm not missing anything then, ignore list mate. I've got no time for fake socialists. He will play the race card on you soon, even though nobody has mentioned anything to do with it!

Corbyn is the most vilified political figure, its a shame poltics is coming to what it is. If we can't have a sensible debate with out the badge blind or blind insults being thrown around then we are all going to hell in a handcart.
Im sorry but I really dont understand what you are trying to say here? are you calling me a fake socialist? (Because I am certainly no socialist) I wasnt even responding to you.

My whole argument was saying that QE2 suggesting that the paper wasnt trying to suggest that they are nazis/evil is totally laughable.
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QE2
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(Original post by AperfectBalance)
Oh come on, what type of cognitive dissonance is this? if someone posted a picture of corbyn and stalin side by side with very simmilar poses saying "Corbyn looks like Stalin" you think the underlying message of that is just 'oh huh they have the same pose' nothing else
Loving the irony there. Nice work.

The fact that you think that an individual simply standing is analogous to a concerted and conspicuous action designed to gain attention and make a political point, shows where the cognitive dissonance really lies.
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lionheart27
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Liberals comparing anyone who doesn't agree with them to Nazis - what's new
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