No Outsiders programme restarts at Birmingham school. Watch

QE2
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Sanity has been restored.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-lgbt-lessons
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999tigger
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Did they get an injunction to keep the mob down to a more respectable size or distance away from the school?
Surely it will be quite easy for the next governors election to take control?
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Napp
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Why exactly is this 'sanity restored'?
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Did they get an injunction to keep the mob down to a more respectable size or distance away from the school?
Surely it will be quite easy for the next governors election to take control?
The school is part of an Academy chain. The election of parent governors hostile to the school management isn't going to have a significant impact.

I suspect that in the medium term, the school is unsaveable. Once there is a serious breakdown in relationships, there will need to be a relaunch of a new school in the buildings within a year or two. The problem is, what parent will choose the school and any children sent there because of over-subscription elsewhere will be looking to move out.

The problem seems to be this deputy head who devised the programme. This is the second school that has erupted around him. School managements up and down the country are delivering equalities programmes in many varieties of schools with pupils from many backgrounds and don't have a baying mob at the gates. Once there is a baying mob at the gates, the educational powers that be have to back him and be seen to back him. That is inevitable. Furthermore, what he is delivering is both the law and government policy. But some people are naturally confrontational and some people think that it is more important to deliver a purist message to an empty classroom than to deliver a watered down message that the children will actually hear. Of course there is also prioritisation. I suspect it isn't really important to him what these Muslim Asian kids' relationships are with the local Hindu or West Indian or Wast European communities provided that they embrace his agenda about sexual orientation.
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James2312
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Well now it's " no outsiders for a faith community",which means what exactly? I suspect it's been watered down which is quite annoying
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James2312
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The school is part of an Academy chain. The election of parent governors hostile to the school management isn't going to have a significant impact.

I suspect that in the medium term, the school is unsaveable. Once there is a serious breakdown in relationships, there will need to be a relaunch of a new school in the buildings within a year or two. The problem is, what parent will choose the school and any children sent there because of over-subscription elsewhere will be looking to move out.

The problem seems to be this deputy head who devised the programme. This is the second school that has erupted around him. School managements up and down the country are delivering equalities programmes in many varieties of schools with pupils from many backgrounds and don't have a baying mob at the gates. Once there is a baying mob at the gates, the educational powers that be have to back him and be seen to back him. That is inevitable. Furthermore, what he is delivering is both the law and government policy. But some people are naturally confrontational and some people think that it is more important to deliver a purist message to an empty classroom than to deliver a watered down message that the children will actually hear. Of course there is also prioritisation. I suspect it isn't really important to him what these Muslim Asian kids' relationships are with the local Hindu or West Indian or Wast European communities provided that they embrace his agenda about sexual orientation.
I think you will find it's not the teacher who has an "agenda".
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QE2
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The problem seems to be this deputy head who devised the programme. This is the second school that has erupted around him. School managements up and down the country are delivering equalities programmes in many varieties of schools with pupils from many backgrounds and don't have a baying mob at the gates.
Perhaps a combination of teacher sexuality and demographics?
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QE2
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(Original post by Napp)
Why exactly is this 'sanity restored'?
Because it is "insane" to withdraw lessons for children on tolerance because of the intolerance of parents. You may have a different word for it but it amounts to the same. How about "reason restored"? You choose.
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QE2
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(Original post by James2312)
Well now it's " no outsiders for a faith community",which means what exactly? I suspect it's been watered down which is quite annoying
According to the school, there have been consultations with parents as promised.
According to the protesters, there has been no change.
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Napp
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(Original post by QE2)
Because it is "insane" to withdraw lessons for children on tolerance because of the intolerance of parents. You may have a different word for it but it amounts to the same. How about "reason restored"? You choose.
That wasn't a jab I genuinely wanted clarification on what you meant. Either way the parents demands were hardly unreasonable. Questionable in their methods perhaps but well within their democratic rights to protest against what they see as propaganda being rammed down their kids throats.
Either way to call them insane or unreasonable would seem to be somewhat of an, ironically enough, intolerant slur on your part.
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Fuego1
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indeed, sanity has been restored. If parents are against this (we all know the religion that these parents were who were against these lessons), maybe they should take their children to a religious school. I don't know how they can expect an entire school to conform to their religious beliefs...
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Napp
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(Original post by James2312)
I think you will find it's not the teacher who has an "agenda".
I think you'll find he did.

noun
noun: agenda; plural noun: agendas
1.
a list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting.
"the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda"
a plan of things to be done or problems to be addressed.
"he vowed to put jobs at the top of his agenda"
synonyms: list of items, schedule, programme, timetable, line-up, list, listing, to-do list, plan, scheme, syllabus, bill, card, directory, table; menu
"a meeting with a fixed agenda"
the underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group.
"Miller has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with football"
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QE2
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(Original post by Napp)
That wasn't a jab I genuinely wanted clarification on what you meant. Either way the parents demands were hardly unreasonable. Questionable in their methods perhaps but well within their democratic rights to protest against what they see as propaganda being rammed down their kids throats.
Either way to call them insane or unreasonable would seem to be somewhat of an, ironically enough, intolerant slur on your part.
So homophobia and sexual intolerance is a "reasonable" position now? Who knew?

Worth bearing in mind that parents do not get to determine the school curriculum in any other subject, so why all the pandering to bigotry when it comes to this one?
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Napp
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(Original post by QE2)
So homophobia and sexual intolerance is a "reasonable" position now? Who knew?
Ah yes, my most sincere apologies, I forgot that you, QE2, were the sole arbiter on what is 'reasonable'...

Worth bearing in mind that parents do not get to determine the school curriculum in any other subject, so why all the pandering to bigotry when it comes to this one?
Pray tell where I hinted that they do? Again though, whether you like it or not, it is the parents right to protest... last time I checked this was the UK, although that was a few years ago, granted.

I wasn't aware I was pandering to anybody, merely stating a fact. You don't have to like it but that doesn't make it any less true. Again, you're starting to sound frightfully intolerant of others positions again.
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James2312
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(Original post by Napp)
I think you'll find he did.

noun
noun: agenda; plural noun: agendas
1.
a list of items to be discussed at a formal meeting.
"the question of nuclear weapons had been removed from the agenda"
a plan of things to be done or problems to be addressed.
"he vowed to put jobs at the top of his agenda"
synonyms: list of items, schedule, programme, timetable, line-up, list, listing, to-do list, plan, scheme, syllabus, bill, card, directory, table; menu
"a meeting with a fixed agenda"
the underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group.
"Miller has his own agenda and it has nothing to do with football"
It's hardly an agenda to teach kids to be nice to each other.Thats just called good manners.And if it is, it pales into insignificance next to the parents own manifest Islamic agenda.
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Napp
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(Original post by James2312)
It's hardly an agenda to teach kids to be nice to each other.Thats just called good manners.And if it is, it pales into insignificance next to the parents own manifest Islamic agenda.
It's the definition, as i just showed. Not necessarily an unreasonable one but thats hardly the point.
Uhuh.
Do I seriously need to explain to you that all religions take issue with gays and transsexuals (although this one is somewhat more murky as to why i guess) theres nothing uniquely Islamic about it. note how the local MP supported them?
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Wired_1800
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Chaos is a ladder.
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James2312
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(Original post by Napp)
It's the definition, as i just showed. Not necessarily an unreasonable one but thats hardly the point.
Uhuh.
Do I seriously need to explain to you that all religions take issue with gays and transsexuals (although this one is somewhat more murky as to why i guess) theres nothing uniquely Islamic about it. note how the local MP supported them?
Yes and all of the religions are wrong.If a bunch of Catholics were protesting outside the school gates I'd argue that as well.But it's not Catholics or Jews it's Muslims.And actually it's not ALL religions just the abrahamic ones.Muslims can't complain about ideologies and agendas and brainwashing if they want to be taken seriously.Thats rank hypocrisy right there.
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Napp
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(Original post by James2312)
Yes and all of the religions are wrong.If a bunch of Catholics were protesting outside the school gates I'd argue that as well.But it's not Catholics or Jews it's Muslims.And actually it's not ALL religions just the abrahamic ones.Muslims can't complain about ideologies and agendas and brainwashing if they want to be taken seriously.Thats rank hypocrisy right there.
That is one hell of a bold claim to make. I mean i don't disagree per-se but nevertheless.
Predominantly Muslims, if memory serves there were some other err concerned citizens as well. Leading on from my point of it not just being Muslims who don't like this its also not just religious people remember.
Is that really the bit you want to pick a hole in? Considering they are by leaps and bounds the most important ones in terms of numbers - never mind the fact i'm struggling to think of any other religion that actively embraces these groups...
Ummm how sorry? I'm somewhat confused as to whom you're referring to when you say 'Muslims' though? It's almost like you're trying to lump over a billion people in as one giant homogeneous group. I'd go as far as to say it seems like you're trying to push some sort of agenda, no?
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James2312
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(Original post by Napp)
That is one hell of a bold claim to make. I mean i don't disagree per-se but nevertheless.
Predominantly Muslims, if memory serves there were some other err concerned citizens as well. Leading on from my point of it not just being Muslims who don't like this its also not just religious people remember.
Is that really the bit you want to pick a hole in? Considering they are by leaps and bounds the most important ones in terms of numbers - never mind the fact i'm struggling to think of any other religion that actively embraces these groups...
Ummm how sorry? I'm somewhat confused as to whom you're referring to when you say 'Muslims' though? It's almost like you're trying to lump over a billion people in as one giant homogeneous group. I'd go as far as to say it seems like you're trying to push some sort of agenda, no?
It's not really a bold claim.That that can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.It is mainly religious people.Even those who aren't religious are influenced by the fact that until a couple of generations ago this country was strongly Christian.Those Christian values have rubbed off on them.

I didn't say all Muslims were homophobic but a lot of them certainly are and Islam certainly is.Pretty much all Muslim countries criminalise homosexuality and hardly any tolerate it.But this isn't about all Muslims it's about those protesters outside the gates.And they like it or not are Muslim.Their sole objection is based on the fact that Islam is against it.Why should their wishes to indoctrinate their children be given any credence? Its not a religious school or a religious country.So what Islam says has no bearing here.They can say what they like in their homes or the mosque but they can't try to impose their religious values on the school.
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