No Outsiders programme restarts at Birmingham school. Watch

Call me anything
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Personally, I just think that teaching primary school children about homosexual relationships will just confuse them rather than help them. I'm not religious at all and I tend to disagree with the religion of the parents who protested it, but I do somewhat agree with them. I think that there is something strange going on in schools where children are taught 'acceptable views' (the boy in Scotland who got kicked out for saying that there are only two genders). I just don't think 12 year olds or less need to know about it, though I am happy with secondary schools teaching it. As a closer I do not have anything against the gay community, I just don't want very young children to be taught about it is all.
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Professional G
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(Original post by Call me anything)
Personally, I just think that teaching primary school children about homosexual relationships will just confuse them rather than help them. I'm not religious at all and I tend to disagree with the religion of the parents who protested it, but I do somewhat agree with them. I think that there is something strange going on in schools where children are taught 'acceptable views' (the boy in Scotland who got kicked out for saying that there are only two genders). I just don't think 12 year olds or less need to know about it, though I am happy with secondary schools teaching it. As a closer I do not have anything against the gay community, I just don't want very young children to be taught about it is all.
Who is teaching about homosexual relationships? They aren’t even using gay or straight. Kids are being taught to respect each other, it’s not about teaching sex or anything. Just saying that different people are out there
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Call me anything
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The head teacher showed the books in an Owen Jones interview, one of which was called 'Mommy, Mama and Me'. The book is about a lesbian couple who have a child, written from the child's point of view. That, I hope, shows a homosexual relationship. But even then, I do understand that it shows that there are different kinds of people out there, but I still don't want children to have to learn about things like that in primary. Children in Birmingham are around a 'diverse' group of people anyway, which would mean they already know that there are different groups of people.
(Original post by Professional G)
Who is teaching about homosexual relationships? They aren’t even using gay or straight. Kids are being taught to respect each other, it’s not about teaching sex or anything. Just saying that different people are out there
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Professional G
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(Original post by Call me anything)
The head teacher showed the books in an Owen Jones interview, one of which was called 'Mommy, Mama and Me'. The book is about a lesbian couple who have a child, written from the child's point of view. That, I hope, shows a homosexual relationship. But even then, I do understand that it shows that there are different kinds of people out there, but I still don't want children to have to learn about things like that in primary. Children in Birmingham are around a 'diverse' group of people anyway, which would mean they already know that there are different groups of people.
There’s a difference between showing a relationship like that and teaching them about it. That book only displays what kind of relationship they have. It doesn’t go into detail about sexuality and I bet it doesn’t even mention gay or lgbt. What is the difference between mommy,mama and me and mommy, dada and me?
This is about the future. Kids should learn to respect others. How do you think people learn to respect?
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Call me anything
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But I still do not agree that it should be allowed or at least encouraged. I still think that it will confuse children, as they would wonder why they don't have two mums which could lead to awkward questions about sexuality with their parents at such a young age, with who I think the conversations should be with. We teach people the rules even though there are exceptions. If you asked someone how many fingers does a person have, I'm sure they would say 10, even though there are people out there with polydactyly. This is why I think for the most part that we should just carry on teaching the way things mostly are and just let children experience the other things for themselves. I don't think that the school should try to tackle difficult subjects with students and I think that those talks should be left with their parents. Even things that would be viewed as 'inclusive' I don't believe should be taught. I genuinely think that if children want to grow up to be bigots or intolerant or whatever, then let them. Kids normally learn respect through their parents, not school. It's probably the same reason why children without a father (the archetypal authoritative figure) are more likely to leave school, commit crimes, develop addictions etc.
(Original post by Professional G)
There’s a difference between showing a relationship like that and teaching them about it. That book only displays what kind of relationship they have. It doesn’t go into detail about sexuality and I bet it doesn’t even mention gay or lgbt. What is the difference between mommy,mama and me and mommy, dada and me?
This is about the future. Kids should learn to respect others. How do you think people learn to respect?
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Charzhino
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(Original post by Call me anything)
Personally, I just think that teaching primary school children about homosexual relationships will just confuse them rather than help them.
I agree with this. Primary school children are highly impressionable and teaching them about LGBT++ issues is just unnecesary. The western world is becoming more tolerant anyway and they can learn about it in high school when they are more mature and have a firmer grasp on biology.

Imagine your 8 year old boy coming home to you and saying he wants to be a girl now because he got the idea from claas. Horrifying.
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Call me anything
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I think you're right, a culture should and does reflect the way people feel in class, not just what they are taught in school. And as you said, as the West is becoming more open and accepting of everything, I think it is almost an insult to both parents and teachers to almost expect that they will not naturally accept new things. I think that a dangerous precedent could easily be set here, that teachers can take moral authority over their students whilst disguising it as simple education.
(Original post by Charzhino)
I agree with this. Primary school children are highly impressionable and teaching them about LGBT++ issues is just unnecesary. The western world is becoming more tolerant anyway and they can learn about it in high school when they are more mature and have a firmer grasp on biology.

Imagine your 8 year old boy coming home to you and saying he wants to be a girl now because he got the idea from claas. Horrifying.
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Professional G
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(Original post by Charzhino)
I agree with this. Primary school children are highly impressionable and teaching them about LGBT++ issues is just unnecesary. The western world is becoming more tolerant anyway and they can learn about it in high school when they are more mature and have a firmer grasp on biology.

Imagine your 8 year old boy coming home to you and saying he wants to be a girl now because he got the idea from claas. Horrifying.
No one is teaching them about issues... and I think it’s highly unlikely boys will just want to be a girl because he learned in class. Funny thing is, you have loads of people who are gay despite many of them being in staticky anti lgbt country, it’s almost like being lgbt is more than just learnt
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Themysticalegg
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I believe the UK is a country of tolerance and our curriculum should reflect this. And I fully advocate the No Outsiders programme and the resolve of the school in Birmingham.
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Fuego1
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(Original post by Call me anything)
But I still do not agree that it should be allowed or at least encouraged. I still think that it will confuse children, as they would wonder why they don't have two mums which could lead to awkward questions about sexuality with their parents at such a young age, with who I think the conversations should be with. We teach people the rules even though there are exceptions. If you asked someone how many fingers does a person have, I'm sure they would say 10, even though there are people out there with polydactyly. This is why I think for the most part that we should just carry on teaching the way things mostly are and just let children experience the other things for themselves. I don't think that the school should try to tackle difficult subjects with students and I think that those talks should be left with their parents. Even things that would be viewed as 'inclusive' I don't believe should be taught. I genuinely think that if children want to grow up to be bigots or intolerant or whatever, then let them. Kids normally learn respect through their parents, not school. It's probably the same reason why children without a father (the archetypal authoritative figure) are more likely to leave school, commit crimes, develop addictions etc.
The purpose of education is to educate people and for children to actually ask questions! If a child has 'awkward questions' or is confused then it is the duty of parents/teachers to answer them - not try and silence them. You seem to underestimate the intelligence of children these days. Just out of interest, at what age do you think kids should be taught about such topics?

'I don't think that the school should try to tackle difficult subjects with students and I think that those talks should be left with their parent' - the problem you have here is that some parents and I'm going to be quite blunt here (parents who are muslims or strict jews/christians), will not teach such things to their children, due to their archaic religious beliefs. If a children asks such a question to the parent, the only response they will get is 'this is totally forbidden in our religion' or 'its haraam to be gay/lesbian and you will go to hell' - so they won't learn a thing about difficult subjects due to the intolerance to homosexuality promoted by religions which many parents follow strictly. The only way these 'difficult subjects' can be addressed is through teaching at schools.
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James2312
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(Original post by Charzhino)
I agree with this. Primary school children are highly impressionable and teaching them about LGBT++ issues is just unnecesary. The western world is becoming more tolerant anyway and they can learn about it in high school when they are more mature and have a firmer grasp on biology.

Imagine your 8 year old boy coming home to you and saying he wants to be a girl now because he got the idea from claas. Horrifying.
That's not what happens.Being transgender is a mental condition called gender Dysphoria.It doesn't occur because a teacher gives a child the idea.Furthermore you can't just become transgender in one day.You have to live for several years as that gender which you wo
want to become.Only then will you even be considered for treatment.Plenty of time for a child to grow out of it.Its fundamentally dishonest to pretend children are going to be coming home and instantly turning transgender.
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James2312
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(Original post by Call me anything)
But I still do not agree that it should be allowed or at least encouraged. I still think that it will confuse children, as they would wonder why they don't have two mums which could lead to awkward questions about sexuality with their parents at such a young age, with who I think the conversations should be with. We teach people the rules even though there are exceptions. If you asked someone how many fingers does a person have, I'm sure they would say 10, even though there are people out there with polydactyly. This is why I think for the most part that we should just carry on teaching the way things mostly are and just let children experience the other things for themselves. I don't think that the school should try to tackle difficult subjects with students and I think that those talks should be left with their parents. Even things that would be viewed as 'inclusive' I don't believe should be taught. I genuinely think that if children want to grow up to be bigots or intolerant or whatever, then let them. Kids normally learn respect through their parents, not school. It's probably the same reason why children without a father (the archetypal authoritative figure) are more likely to leave school, commit crimes, develop addictions etc.
The problem with leaving it to the parents is that those parents are often horrible bigots, as they are clearly demonstrating here.
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QE2
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(Original post by Call me anything)
The head teacher showed the books in an Owen Jones interview, one of which was called 'Mommy, Mama and Me'. The book is about a lesbian couple who have a child, written from the child's point of view. That, I hope, shows a homosexual relationship. But even then, I do understand that it shows that there are different kinds of people out there, but I still don't want children to have to learn about things like that in primary. Children in Birmingham are around a 'diverse' group of people anyway, which would mean they already know that there are different groups of people.
Homosexual relationships are real, are regularly portrayed on mainstream TV and film, and often affect children at school. Why would teaching them that such relationships are natural and acceptable be "confusing"? (Unless their parents/community are teaching them the opposite, of course)
When should children learn that such relationships are perfectly fine? When it is too late? You may say it is too young to be teaching children tolerance and acceptance, but clerics and religious parents won't wait until later to teach their intolerance and bigotry.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by Call me anything)
Personally, I just think that teaching primary school children about homosexual relationships will just confuse them rather than help them. I'm not religious at all and I tend to disagree with the religion of the parents who protested it, but I do somewhat agree with them.
How exactly will being taught that LGBTQ folk exist confuse children? They're being taught that their classmate Susan might have two mums, not the intricacies of fisting fer Christ's sake.

Also, why don't we apply that logic towards the heteronormativity of society? Should kids be told they can't watch Disney films because most of them have princesses awarded to the male hero for heroing, and that might confuse gay children?

I think that there is something strange going on in schools where children are taught 'acceptable views' (the boy in Scotland who got kicked out for saying that there are only two genders).
Ok, but thats not actually the case, he was expelled for recording a teacher and publishing it without their permission, which can be a criminal offence in some circumstances.
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QE2
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(Original post by Charzhino)
I agree with this. Primary school children are highly impressionable and teaching them about LGBT++ issues is just unnecesary.
Indeed. Imagine if children learned that homosexuality was natural and acceptable! Ye gods! Society would fall apart!!

The western world is becoming more tolerant anyway and they can learn about it in high school when they are more mature and have a firmer grasp on biology.
Biology has nothing to do with it. It is to do with acceptance and tolerance of people who are different, not which hole the **** goes in. *smh*

Imagine your 8 year old boy coming home to you and saying he wants to be a girl now because he got the idea from claas. Horrifying.
So you are horrified by the idea of your child being homosexual - which is precisely why such lessons are needed! Thanks for the demonstration.
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Call me anything
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I am not really against their parents teaching them bigotry and intolerance, as though parents do have large effects on their children we have seen many times where children have gone a completely different way from their parents. The culture revolution of the 60's and 70's surely came as much of a surprise to the parents of those people, as well as the more conservative revolution of the young people we are seeing today. I think that there is somewhat a battle between what parents teach their children and what the school teaches their pupils. However, though I am not a bigot in any way, I still think that as a free and liberal society we must allow some people to be intolerant, even though we disagree with them. And you are right with your point, Hollywood has been pushing to get certain beliefs or views into their shows, whether that is for better or worse. I think that children will find out either when their parents decide that it is fine or when they actually encounter homosexuals. I don't think we should limit children's experiences in the real world, I just don't want certain things being taught in education is all.
(Original post by QE2)
Homosexual relationships are real, are regularly portrayed on mainstream TV and film, and often affect children at school. Why would teaching them that such relationships are natural and acceptable be "confusing"? (Unless their parents/community are teaching them the opposite, of course)
When should children learn that such relationships are perfectly fine? When it is too late? You may say it is too young to be teaching children tolerance and acceptance, but clerics and religious parents won't wait until later to teach their intolerance and bigotry.
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Professional G
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(Original post by Call me anything)
I am not really against their parents teaching them bigotry and intolerance, as though parents do have large effects on their children we have seen many times where children have gone a completely different way from their parents. The culture revolution of the 60's and 70's surely came as much of a surprise to the parents of those people, as well as the more conservative revolution of the young people we are seeing today. I think that there is somewhat a battle between what parents teach their children and what the school teaches their pupils. However, though I am not a bigot in any way, I still think that as a free and liberal society we must allow some people to be intolerant, even though we disagree with them. And you are right with your point, Hollywood has been pushing to get certain beliefs or views into their shows, whether that is for better or worse. I think that children will find out either when their parents decide that it is fine or when they actually encounter homosexuals. I don't think we should limit children's experiences in the real world, I just don't want certain things being taught in education is all.
People have been blaming hollwood for being progressive for 60 years now, didn’t change them then, and it won’t change them now. As if you said, you don’t mind parents teaching their kids to be bigots. Guess you wouldn’t mind kids growing up to be future extremists or anti British/White then
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Call me anything
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I think that if you tell children that it isn't just hetrosexuality and try to make a strong progressive point against it, that will confuse them. I personally genuinely believe that this is all just being used to push an LGBT agenda, using children as the pawns. I could easily be wrong here, but I just think that children just don't need to know it yet, and it should left be to parents and carers rather than a board of education to decide.

I think that the world is naturally heteronormative, as most people are heterosexual. I am not trying to other the LGBT society and I understand that they are different, yet I believe that we should still teach the norm rather than going out of our way to educate about an exception. Children will find out about it in their own time in their own way. Female princesses also aren't awarded to the male hero, and I think that when people (mainly Feminists) try to push this point then they are completely disregarding the choice that the princess makes to be with the prince. These are the same kind of people who are complaining that mother's who choose to stay at home and not join the workforce are somehow undermining Feminism.

The point I made about him being kicked out was meaning being kicked out of a lesson. I understand that it may be a crime doing what he did, but he documented the reason. Whether what he did was right or not, the fact remains he got kicked out for expressing the wrong opinion. I genuinely wish that schools could go back to a time where teaching was about the battling out of ideas to find the best, rather than the indoctrination of the children because of one ideology.

The 'battling of ideas' sounds quite like this place and these forums, wouldn't you agree?
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
How exactly will being taught that LGBTQ folk exist confuse children? They're being taught that their classmate Susan might have two mums, not the intricacies of fisting fer Christ's sake.

Also, why don't we apply that logic towards the heteronormativity of society? Should kids be told they can't watch Disney films because most of them have princesses awarded to the male hero for heroing, and that might confuse gay children?



Ok, but thats not actually the case, he was expelled for recording a teacher and publishing it without their permission, which can be a criminal offence in some circumstances.
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Charzhino
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(Original post by Professional G)
No one is teaching them about issues... and I think it’s highly unlikely boys will just want to be a girl because he learned in class. Funny thing is, you have loads of people who are gay despite many of them being in staticky anti lgbt country, it’s almost like being lgbt is more than just learnt
Watching shows like trans primary kids; I disagree. Boys and girls have had no problem attending traditional primary schools for over a century, introducing concepts and rhetoric like "girls can be boys in girl bodies" (something along these lines was shown in the educational leaflets of this Birmingham school) is messing with established schooling unnecessarily .
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Charzhino
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(Original post by James2312)
That's not what happens.Being transgender is a mental condition called gender Dysphoria.It doesn't occur because a teacher gives a child the idea.Furthermore you can't just become transgender in one day.You have to live for several years as that gender which you wo
want to become.Only then will you even be considered for treatment.Plenty of time for a child to grow out of it.Its fundamentally dishonest to pretend children are going to be coming home and instantly turning transgender.
Respectfully disagree. Boys and girls at primary shouldnt be told about this as it may influence them. All these documentaries and statistics about ever increasing number of "trans" kids under 13 is alarming. This wasnt an issue 10+ years ago. Connect the dots
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