Trump lashes out at British Ambassador and PM Watch

Napp
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It seems he doesnt deal well with the truth.
It's a pity that some feckless swine sore fit to throw a, by all accounts, excellent ambassador under the bus for what seems to be petty political point scoring. Shameful and caddish behaviour.
Although Trumps drubbing of Britain should probably be paid attention to, no doubt his fan boys will find some excuse for it though...

US President Donald Trump has stepped up his attack on the UK's ambassador in Washington, Sir Kim Darroch, saying "we will no longer deal with him".
In withering comments on Twitter, Mr Trump also lashed out at Theresa May, saying it was "good news" that Britain would soon have a new prime minister.
Sir Kim, in emails leaked on Sunday, described Mr Trump's administration as dysfunctional and inept.
Mrs May said she had "full faith" in Sir Kim but did not agree with him.
Her spokesman had described the leak as "absolutely unacceptable", and said the prime minister's office had made contact with the White House.
  • Mr Trump had already responded to the leaked emails by saying "we're not big fans of that man and he has not served the UK well".

In Monday's series of tweets he said Sir Kim was "not liked or well thought of within the US".
Apparently angered by Mrs May's support for the ambassador, he again lashed out at her handling of Brexit, describing it as "a mess".

Mrs May stepped down after failing to have a Brexit deal approved by parliament and the governing Conservative Party is choosing between two remaining candidates - Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt - to replace her.

The US state department declined to comment on President Trump's remarks.
Is ambassador now 'persona non grata'?

Analysis by James Landale, BBC diplomatic correspondent
By saying he won't deal with Sir Kim Darroch any more, Donald Trump is apparently all but declaring the ambassador to be persona non grata. That is the formal legal process by which a host government expels a foreign diplomat.
The key question now is what the president means by the word "deal". If the royal "we" used by Mr Trump means that his entire administration will no longer deal with Sir Kim or any of his staff then the British government may have to decide to fast track the retirement of their man in Washington.
Sir Kim, who is an honourable man and was stepping down anyway in a few months, may decide to resign. If, however, Mr Trump merely means he won't deal personally with Sir Kim then the ambassador may stay on until the new prime minister can make his own appointment. T
This all presents the British government with an awkward dilemma - to buckle under US pressure and bring Sir Kim home, risking accusations of abject weakness, or to stand firm and defend their ambassador for doing his job and telling the truth as he sees it, risking even further damage to the UK/US relationship.










What did the leaked emails say?

In the emails leaked to the Mail on Sunday, Sir Kim said: "We don't really believe this administration is going to become substantially more normal; less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction-riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept."
He questioned whether this White House "will ever look competent" but also warned that the US president should not be written off.
The emails, dating from 2017, said rumours of "infighting and chaos" in the White House were mostly true and policy on sensitive issues such as Iran was "incoherent, chaotic".

Sir Kim said Mr Trump was "dazzled" by his state visit to the UK in June, but warned that his administration would remain self-interested, adding: "This is still the land of America First."








Who is Sir Kim Darroch?

Sir Kim represents the Queen and UK government interests in the US.
Born in South Stanley, County Durham, in 1954, he attended Durham University where he read zoology.

During a 42-year diplomatic career, he has specialised in national security issues and European Union policy.
In 2007, Sir Kim served in Brussels as the UK permanent representative to the EU.
He was the prime minister's national security adviser between 2012 and 2015, dealing with issues such as the rise of the Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria, Russian annexation of Crimea, the nuclear threat from Iran and the collapse of government authority in Libya.
He became ambassador to the US in January 2016, several months before Donald Trump became president.







https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48914294
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999tigger
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Rather it hadnt happened. Reaction pretty much as expected and because Trump throws a wobbler then they will have to withdraw him otherwise there is no working relationship and by May backing him Trump will take it that she agrees with the assessment. This is irrespective of whether it is true or not. Trump cant take any criticism. The guy should be withdrawn and reassigned. The leak is disturbing though and the person should be prosecuted.
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Ascend
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"For a man who has risen to the highest office on the planet, President Trump radiates insecurity."

I believe Sir Kim has just pinpointed the force behind MAGA energy. And Kanye West.
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Mustafa0605
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He’s an orange donkey hope he gets removed from office in the next elections by anyone
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Burge91
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Guys. Remember he's human. Even rapists and murderers and cannibals are human. Stop dehumanising public figures. That doesn't mean you need to like them, but at least be rational and have a neutral attitude before you have real experience in their presence.
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ThomH97
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What else is a head of state supposed to do? You're not going to pretend to get along with an ambassador who has been outed as a two-faced liar (presumably he was pleasant to Trump's face, and now the world has found out it was an act). I can't fault Trump for lashing out, to not do so would be to admit it is true.

May's stuck on what to do, but that doesn't really matter as she's going soon. Probably best to just do as she's done unless she already had someone in mind to replace Darroch. Would Boris let Trump choose Farage?

It's not great for the next ambassador though. They already have to be 'diplomatic' with one side, having to be 'diplomatic' to home as well for fear of leaks ties both hands behind their back. What's the point of having an ambassador if they just say "Everything's great" to both sides?

Add to that the potential national security breaches for the USA if newspapers are getting hold of what should be confidential correspondence regarding the workings of the USA's administration.
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Napp
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(Original post by ThomH97)
What else is a head of state supposed to do? You're not going to pretend to get along with an ambassador who has been outed as a two-faced liar (presumably he was pleasant to Trump's face, and now the world has found out it was an act). I can't fault Trump for lashing out, to not do so would be to admit it is true.
Not throw a wobbly on twitter and attack an ally?
Everyone already knows its true, his reaction rather proves it..?
Would Boris let Trump choose Farage?
I bloody well hope not. Besides, the FCO would have a complete fit if he tried to do something like that.

Add to that the potential national security breaches for the USA if newspapers are getting hold of what should be confidential correspondence regarding the workings of the USA's administration.
What do you mean sorry? This leak didnt have any bearing of national security?
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ThomH97
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(Original post by Napp)
Not throw a wobbly on twitter and attack an ally?
Everyone already knows its true, his reaction rather proves it..?
Whether true or not, what is a head of state supposed to do when their leadership is attacked like this?

I bloody well hope not. Besides, the FCO would have a complete fit if he tried to do something like that.


What do you mean sorry? This leak didnt have any bearing of national security?
Not what has been published this time, no. But I would assume the British ambassador would be aware of or trusted with some things that the USA wouldn't want widely known. If their communications with the British government then aren't secure, the USA does indeed need to consider how much to trust Britain's representative there.

In short, Trump sucks but is right to retaliate in this instance, the ambassador was right to give an honest appraisal trusting it wouldn't be publicised, May doesn't really matter, and whoever leaked this stuff has directly undermined the relationship between the two countries, and made the future British ambassador's job a lot more difficult.
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Napp
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(Original post by ThomH97)
Whether true or not, what is a head of state supposed to do when their leadership is attacked like this?
It was hardly attacked. This was a confidential memo. Either way, the answer is the same he should act like a grown up. If he wants the Ambassador gone then throw him out of the country dont slander him and our government.

This was a leak not an intercept?
I'm not overly sure what youre trying to say though afraid as you seem to be talking about something totally different. After all this man was hardly Burgess.
In short, Trump sucks but is right to retaliate in this instance, the ambassador was right to give an honest appraisal trusting it wouldn't be publicised, May doesn't really matter, and whoever leaked this stuff has directly undermined the relationship between the two countries, and made the future British ambassador's job a lot more difficult.
True.
I'm curious if they'll ever actually find out who leaked it though.
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z-hog
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Trumpophobes are funny, they cheer every time someone has a go and become indignant if Trump says something back. Really, I've moved on from dispensing any seriousness to them and now just... laugh.
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Napp
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(Original post by z-hog)
Trumpophobes are funny, they cheer every time someone has a go and become indignant if Trump says something back. Really, I've moved on from dispensing any seriousness to them and now just... laugh.
I’m waiting for you to make a point as opposed to deflecting...
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Drewski
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(Original post by ThomH97)
What else is a head of state supposed to do? You're not going to pretend to get along with an ambassador who has been outed as a two-faced liar
Yes you are, that's called diplomacy.
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z-hog
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(Original post by Napp)
I’m waiting for you to make a point as opposed to deflecting...
Deflecting what, somebody said something about him and he has said something about that. What point could I possibly make, that he should just take everything in without a remark? Nah, I'm a bit like him on that front.
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z-hog
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(Original post by Drewski)
Yes you are, that's called diplomacy.
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the beer
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(Original post by z-hog)
Trumpophobes are funny, they cheer every time someone has a go and become indignant if Trump says something back. Really, I've moved on from dispensing any seriousness to them and now just... laugh.
Has he said anything about noncing it up with Epstien yet?
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z-hog
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(Original post by the beer)
Has he said anything about noncing it up with Epstien yet?
I don't know and couldn't care less either.
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the beer
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(Original post by z-hog)
I don't know and couldn't care less either.
About the noncing or what he has to say?
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anarchism101
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(Original post by ThomH97)
What else is a head of state supposed to do? You're not going to pretend to get along with an ambassador who has been outed as a two-faced liar (presumably he was pleasant to Trump's face, and now the world has found out it was an act). I can't fault Trump for lashing out, to not do so would be to admit it is true.
On the contrary, doing so proved the ambassador correct.

In 2010 WikiLeaks published tonnes of similar comments by American diplomats about pretty much every major world leader. There were staff reshuffles, sure, but no leader of a US-allied country reacted in anything like the way Trump did. They understood that long-term diplomacy was more important than whether they were being personally insulted in private.
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ThomH97
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(Original post by Napp)
It was hardly attacked. This was a confidential memo. Either way, the answer is the same he should act like a grown up. If he wants the Ambassador gone then throw him out of the country dont slander him and our government.
I would still expect a head of state to defend themselves if such criticism were directed at them and their government. Trump's done it in his own way that the USA seems to like but we find excessive, but to hit back in principle makes sense to me.

The other part of your post got cut off, what I was referring to was the USA should be able to trust information willingly given to an ambassador will not be made public. That these confidential emails were made public shows that somewhere from the ambassador onwards, information isn't safe.
(Original post by Drewski)
Yes you are, that's called diplomacy.
I would say it's on the sending country to replace an ambassador who publicly says that about the country they are sent to. Obviously in this case it wasn't Darroch personally who publicised his comments, but you don't send knowingly send an antagonistic (even if not his fault) ambassador to a country you want to have good relations with. An ambassador is more easily replaced than a head of state.
(Original post by anarchism101)
On the contrary, doing so proved the ambassador correct.

In 2010 WikiLeaks published tonnes of similar comments by American diplomats about pretty much every major world leader. There were staff reshuffles, sure, but no leader of a US-allied country reacted in anything like the way Trump did. They understood that long-term diplomacy was more important than whether they were being personally insulted in private.
It was a bit more than just a personal attack (such as the old "Haha Trump has tiny hands" etc), it was an attack on his administration's competency. I think Darroch is right in his assessment, but that doesn't mean I think Trump should just let it slide. He'd lose support, and doesn't really have anything to lose by having a go at outgoing ambassadors and PMs.
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James2312
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(Original post by ThomH97)
What else is a head of state supposed to do? You're not going to pretend to get along with an ambassador who has been outed as a two-faced liar (presumably he was pleasant to Trump's face, and now the world has found out it was an act). I can't fault Trump for lashing out, to not do so would be to admit it is true.

May's stuck on what to do, but that doesn't really matter as she's going soon. Probably best to just do as she's done unless she already had someone in mind to replace Darroch. Would Boris let Trump choose Farage?

It's not great for the next ambassador though. They already have to be 'diplomatic' with one side, having to be 'diplomatic' to home as well for fear of leaks ties both hands behind their back. What's the point of having an ambassador if they just say "Everything's great" to both sides?

Add to that the potential national security breaches for the USA if newspapers are getting hold of what should be confidential correspondence regarding the workings of the USA's administration.
Erm not throw a temper tantrum? He's the President of the United States with sole power over the nuclear launch codes not a two year old.He should act like it.
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