UK tax system Watch

Mike172
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#41
Report 1 week ago
#41
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
There's the safety walls being erected to protect the fragility of your beliefs. You then result to an ad hominem, attacking my spelling and grammar because you are uncomfortable sticking to the points in question.

I noticed you avoided answering all the questions aimed at you, while I have answered every one of yours, why is that?

Now I did not mention luck, but being as so you have I'll roll with it because at the moment I'm confident I can defeat your argument pretty easily from any angle

A baby boy is born to a wealthy family, they buy a private education this education provides a goldern ticket for said child, runs as a average person, C stream and becomes a Dr.

Vs

A baby boy born to a single parent, parents in and out of prison. A state education is provided and he is of average intelligenc, C streams and becomes a FLT Driver on minimum wage.

I call that luck of the draw, how do you define it?
An average person wouldn’t become a doctor no matter their upbringing or education level. The entry requirements to study medicine are high so if privately educated Hugo was only average he wouldn’t make the cut.

Same goes for the kid that went to a crap state school. If they don’t acquire top grades they’ll run into the same issue.

Plenty of people from poor backgrounds have worked hard and become millionaires. I’m sure plenty of people from well off backgrounds have done terribly in life also.

Of course, we’re not all born equal, I’ll agree with you on that. That’s just life and it’s fine. It’s what you choose to do with it that matters. We have equality of opportunity, thankfully not equality of outcome as some would like to seemingly have.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#42
Report 1 week ago
#42
(Original post by Mike172)
An average person wouldn’t become a doctor no matter their upbringing or education level. The entry requirements to study medicine are high so if privately educated Hugo was only average he wouldn’t make the cut.

Same goes for the kid that went to a crap state school. If they don’t acquire top grades they’ll run into the same issue.

Plenty of people from poor backgrounds have worked hard and become millionaires. I’m sure plenty of people from well off backgrounds have done terribly in life also.

Of course, we’re not all born equal, I’ll agree with you on that. That’s just life and it’s fine. It’s what you choose to do with it that matters. We have equality of opportunity, thankfully not equality of outcome as some would like to seemingly have.
Oh you are sadly mistaken.

The top schools provide the majority of the top earners of the country. An example is how Eaton university has provided more prime ministers than all state schools combined.

Now unless you are buying into some type of fascist natural section of good genes for the wealthy, this is simply about buying a golden ticket for your child.

Now I'm not talking about communism somehow equaling outcomes, that's a strawman.

Now why have you still avoided answering the questions I asked you earlier in the topic?
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#43
Report 1 week ago
#43
(Original post by Mike172)
What? I was asking you which low skilled jobs pay a high salary.
Now you are simply lying #32 it's written in text what you asked.

No point lying
0
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#44
Report 1 week ago
#44
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I've already said huge sevtio d of people who are needed to make up society from care works to skilled butcher's to skilled nursery nurses all very low paid but needed.
Where is supply and demand not working?
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#45
Report 1 week ago
#45
(Original post by RogerOxon)
I disagree. You've made assertions, but not provided any evidence, so it's not very convincing.
Well I'm not here to educate you, look at national statistics on the gap between the richest and the poorest.

Also if you don't regulatate wages, in anyway and allow coporation to do what they like. What's to stop them exploiting the poorest for their own gain? This is not new it's been happening for years.

You don't measure a economies sucess by how many millionaires it's go, t you judge it by how many homeless people in let down!
0
reply
Mike172
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#46
Report 1 week ago
#46
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Now you are simply lying #32 it's written in text what you asked.

No point lying
What the **** are you talking about? You made the claim the there are low skilled jobs that pay a high salary. I’m simply asking you to list some.
0
reply
Salostar
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#47
Report 1 week ago
#47
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You don't measure a economies sucess by how many millionaires it's go, t you judge it by how many homeless people in let down!
Well, actually... It's measured by GDP (although GDP per capita is probably the better measurement). Wellness is a new thing and I believe only New Zealand is looking int to?
0
reply
Mike172
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#48
Report 1 week ago
#48
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh you are sadly mistaken.

The top schools provide the majority of the top earners of the country. An example is how Eaton university has provided more prime ministers than all state schools combined.

Now unless you are buying into some type of fascist natural section of good genes for the wealthy, this is simply about buying a golden ticket for your child.

Now I'm not talking about communism somehow equaling outcomes, that's a strawman.

Now why have you still avoided answering the questions I asked you earlier in the topic?
Fascist?! I’d love you to define fascism for me!

Yes I do believe that parents who work hard and strive to achieve are likely to instil similar values on their children. Why wouldn’t they. Conversely, kids who see their parents lounging around with no work ethic are likely to think that’s the norm and follow suit.

And yes, genes are passed down. Basic biology for you there.

Fire away with your questions, I can’t be arsed to go back to find them.
0
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#49
Report 1 week ago
#49
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well I'm not here to educate you, look at national statistics on the gap between the richest and the poorest.
You claimed:
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well is it? Because unregulated free market capitalism will simply strave the majority of society for the benefits of the elite.
The gap between rich and poor says nothing about how many people starve. A productive economy can have a large gap, but provide adequately for most.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Also if you don't regulatate wages, in anyway and allow coporation to do what they like. What's to stop them exploiting the poorest for their own gain?
Supply and demand. There is a minimum wage to provide some protection, but there also needs to be an incentive to become more skilled.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You don't measure a economies sucess by how many millionaires it's go, t you judge it by how many homeless people in let down!
That's a whole different question. I doubt that there's a definition that everyone would agree on, although I don't like societies that ignore the vulnerable.
0
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#50
Report 1 week ago
#50
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
An example is how Eaton university has provided more prime ministers than all state schools combined.
I think that you meant Eaton College ..

To some extent, politics is the preserve of the wealthy. It's worse in the US.

Oxbridge has also supplied a lot of PMs, and it's open to anyone with the ability and potential.
Last edited by RogerOxon; 1 week ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#51
Report 1 week ago
#51
(Original post by Salostar)
Well, actually... It's measured by GDP (although GDP per capita is probably the better measurement). Wellness is a new thing and I believe only New Zealand is looking int to?
Well this is true, I should of said. We should not measure, not you don't measure. That way I would of been factually accurate but yes I stand corrected.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#52
Report 1 week ago
#52
(Original post by Mike172)
Fascist?! I’d love you to define fascism for me!

Yes I do believe that parents who work hard and strive to achieve are likely to instil similar values on their children. Why wouldn’t they. Conversely, kids who see their parents lounging around with no work ethic are likely to think that’s the norm and follow suit.

And yes, genes are passed down. Basic biology for you there.

Fire away with your questions, I can’t be arsed to go back to find them.
Well I think you might wish to visit a few private schools, and mix with some wealthy people, belive me not are all as bright as their incomes would have you believe, and it is absolutely not uncommon for middle of the road private educated children to wish and be successful to become doctors, I can tell assure you this first hand.

Fasism well you have me there, the problem with the 'isms' is they are based on opinions.

Questions

Therefore why should you not pay proportionately more than those that is struggling to makes ends meat?

why should those who did not share your fortune but make huge contributions to society be left in poverty just to give those with an abundance of money in more to stash anyway in off shore bank accounts?

Why should we allow those unable to work suffer?

Why should those more able not support their fellow country men?

By the way plenty of people in a worked in a factory a cigarette factory close to me were on very very high salaries also train drivers are two low skilled workers on high salaries off the top of my head.

Anyway I'm off out now. Speak later
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#53
Report 1 week ago
#53
(Original post by RogerOxon)
I think that you meant Eaton College ..

In some extent, politics is the preserve of the wealthy. It's worse in the US.

Oxbridge has also supplied a lot of PMs, and it's open to anyone with the ability and potential.
I did Roger you are correct, thanks for correcting me.

It's not just poltics, I did not know about Oxbridge, I will reserch that later.
0
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#54
Report 1 week ago
#54
(Original post by Mike172)
Those on lower wages can get a better paying career if they like.
You only need to look at economies where high levels of inequality and poverty exists to know that this is completely untrue. Poverty is a trap which prevents them from getting a better paid career; there is a minimum standard of living that people need in order to be able to get a job and get a career; it's basically impossible for someone to get a job if they're living on the streets with no fixed address, no bank account, unable even to afford to eat every day nor to take care of their health or have clean clothes, or basic sanitary products, etc. Then there's also the need for most of them to get skills training, which they certainly wouldn't be able to afford on their own.

The reality is that a minimum standard of living exists which people need to be at before they are realistically able to get a job or progress in a career. A safety net is a necessary part of society to prevent people from slipping into poverty and enables them to take opportunities to get somewhere in life rather than being stuck.

The bottom line is that poverty is destructive to society - Look at cities around the world where poverty is high; in nearly all cases there's a direct correlation between poverty levels and criminal behaviour, drugs, gang violence, even civil unrest. Then there are health issues too - people living in poverty tend to suffer a lot of mental and physical health problems which makes it even harder for them to get a job.

The reality is that public services need to exist to prevent people from slipping into poverty and be a way of supporting them into better paid work. Someone needs to pay for it. Most people on low wages simply can't afford to pay for the public services because taxing them more would push them into even more hardship and cause more problems. The people who can afford the public services are those who are already wealthy and well-paid -- the reality is that the people who can afford it are the ones who have to pay because taking money from those who can't afford it just creates huge problems for both society and the economy.
Last edited by winterscoming; 1 week ago
1
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#55
Report 1 week ago
#55
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
It's not just poltics, I did not know about Oxbridge, I will reserch that later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...m_by_education

Of the 54 UK PMs, 27 went to the University of Oxford and 14 to Cambridge. 19 went to Eton College (essentially a secondary school).
0
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#56
Report 1 week ago
#56
(Original post by winterscoming)
The people who can afford the public services are those who are already wealthy and well-paid -- the reality is that the people who can afford it are the ones who have to pay because taking money from those who can't afford it just creates huge problems for both society and the economy.
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, I don't with this, although it really depends on how you define 'wealthy' and 'low wages'.

IMO, a society needs to obtain its funding for services from as large a proportion of its members as possible. There's something disturbing about people voting for others to pay them.
0
reply
lorainsj
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#57
Report 1 week ago
#57
(Original post by RogerOxon)
Oxbridge has also supplied a lot of PMs, and it's open to anyone with the ability and potential.
And what of the financial circumstances that a student needs to live in Oxford to allow them to study there?
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
1
reply
winterscoming
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#58
Report 1 week ago
#58
(Original post by RogerOxon)
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, I don't with this, although it really depends on how you define 'wealthy' and 'low wages'.

IMO, a society needs to obtain its funding for services from as large a proportion of its members as possible. There's something disturbing about people voting for others to pay them.
Well I'd treat earnings and wealth as separate unrelated issues (For example, a lot of people on relatively high salaries in their 20s-30s are living in expensive parts of the country and paying a fortune in rent and other living costs, with no assets of their own yet so their overall wealth status may even be lower than someone who may earn less but owns their house outright and has far lower living costs as a result).

To my mind, a 'low' wage would be a wage which isn't enough by itself for someone to be able to live without struggling to pay for the basics like food, heating, clothes, etc.

But the point was more about having taxes which bring in enough money to pay for public services while not being punitive to people who simply can't afford to pay them. I don't think you can ever get a tax system which is 100% fair and balanced to everyone without it being over-complicated
Last edited by winterscoming; 1 week ago
1
reply
RogerOxon
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#59
Report 1 week ago
#59
(Original post by lorainsj)
And what of the financial circumstances that a student needs to live in Oxford to allow them to study there?
It's cheaper than a lot of other places. Eight week terms also help.
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
0
reply
Bang Outta Order
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#60
Report 1 week ago
#60
(Original post by Mike172)
Why?

Why should higher earners pay a greater proportion of their income in taxes?
Lol what part do you not get?

If someone made 100 quid, you take 10%, they're left with 90. Even less.

But if someone makes 10000, they still have 9000 left after 10% off. How is that right? It's not so much that you're paying MORE, it's that they're paying LESS. if you think of it that way, how can anyone with a brain and a heart still be angry? :nah:
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Are cats selfish

Yes (144)
61.28%
No (91)
38.72%

Watched Threads

View All