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AnxiousAtypical
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-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
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mullac
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Classical liberalism does not specify any leaning towards left and right however it places an emphasis on economic freedom. This means that Classical librals share many economic views with conservatives (such as the free market and minimising taxation) so the term classical liberal as well as libertarian have become conflated with the right wing.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’
They do?

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?
It's a little more complex than that.

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?
No. I'm sure many Trump supporters consider themselves to be classic liberals. However his advocacy of trade protectionism, willingness to run a large government deficit, etc. are at odds with classic liberalism.

As for conservatives in general, a lot of the them tend to be far more statist and paternalistic than they claim to be. Just look at our Conservative party and their sugar tax, idiotic porn blocking plans, etc.

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
No. A person's support for such parties is more about their attitude to Brexit, or in the cause of For Britain and increasing UKIP, just being out and out far right.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’
Probably because they're against the leftist progressive policies. Mainly because the core of classical liberalism is the belief that people-can-be-mistaken-therefore-the-state-can-be-mistaken. Therefore, they believe the state should only interfere in things it undoubtedly has to and there is doubt how this should be done. Therefore, there should be state courts, police or army, but there shouldn't be any actions that enforce any views.
Historically, classical liberalism was born from observation how much damage religious persecutions have done.

(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?
It's on the left from conservatism, and on the right from socialism. I've no idea if it's left or right leaning, I consider the left-right wing division obsolete and inaccurate.
I can only tell you that moder/progressive 'liberals' have betrayed the core ideals of classical liberalism.

(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?
No, however the term may be misused by some, and some classical liberals and some classical social-liberals might prefer Trump over his US opponents.


(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
I've no idea. This would require some serious research I do not have resources for, to conduct.
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LawManc
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(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
Classical liberals are frequently called 'far right.' Make careful note of the people who call them so. For they say far more about themselves than they do of classical liberals. Indeed, they mark themselves out as those who believe that the state, whatever state that may be (pluralist/democratic, fascist, communist etc), knows best. To be more precise, that they know better what the individual needs than the individual themselves. Quite a claim!

Classical liberalism, it will come as no surprise, takes the contrary view. They believe that each person is precious, individual and unique. Hence, they are best able to describe, pursue and achieve, their own individual ends. Better still, if you allow this free market in the persuit of individual happiness, then, better still, you will achieve something even greater than individual happiness, You will, to say the liberal utilitarians, achieve greater happiness as a whole.

Such individuals are not necessarily inclined to one party? Why? Because government is an anathema to classical liberal principles of whatever stripe. They certainly, however, would support the party that was in favour of less regulation rather than more of the same.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
The economic side of classical liberalism is right-wing, it defends the accumulations of the haves against the have-nots. Classical-liberals also tend to be socially conservative.
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
They do?



It's a little more complex than that.



No. I'm sure many Trump supporters consider themselves to be classic liberals. However his advocacy of trade protectionism, willingness to run a large government deficit, etc. are at odds with classic liberalism.

As for conservatives in general, a lot of the them tend to be far more statist and paternalistic than they claim to be. Just look at our Conservative party and their sugar tax, idiotic porn blocking plans, etc.



No. A person's support for such parties is more about their attitude to Brexit, or in the cause of For Britain and increasing UKIP, just being out and out far right.
Well, we can agree on something - the Tory Party are getting far too statist and authoritarian.

I'm personally libertarian (of the Hayek/Friedman school of thought) and think that supporting ”For Britain” is immediately a sign that:
1) You're a Fascist/Nazi/National Socialist (I can't remember whether For Britain are more ”national” or more ”socialist” (ie Strasserite) but they are not conducive to sensible politics) and not a libertarian.
2) I need to remember where I left my mcdonalds milkshake.
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ByEeek
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I think you are confusing liberal economics with the right to be a racist thug without challenge.
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain
-Because they support the rights of the far right to things like free speech and a fair trial etc. They also may support restrictive immigration which much of the modern ‘left’ thinks is literal genocide.

-it’s economically and socially liberal. So basically they’re wrong about everything.

-Kinda. They’re a faction at least, but most tend to be Neocons which are far worse, eg they’re zealously socially liberal, tend to be pro mass immigration and favour bombing or invading countries that disagree with them.

- they can do but also the Lib Dem’s and Tories too. That said, classical liberalism is actually highly unpopular amongst most people. And us hugely overrepresented in government and the media and shows the triumph of the financial elite
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
-Because they support the rights of the far right to things like free speech and a fair trial etc. They also may support restrictive immigration which much of the modern ‘left’ thinks is literal genocide.

-it’s economically and socially liberal. So basically they’re wrong about everything.

-Kinda. They’re a faction at least, but most tend to be Neocons which are far worse, eg they’re zealously socially liberal, tend to be pro mass immigration and favour bombing or invading countries that disagree with them.

- they can do but also the Lib Dem’s and Tories too. That said, classical liberalism is actually highly unpopular amongst most people. And us hugely overrepresented in government and the media and shows the triumph of the financial elite
Well...
I have dealt with Russian trolls and alt-right trolls, but never a North-Korean troll. May I suggest you visit North-Korea and particularly one of its fun new ”holiday gulags”? If you are lucky you may get to stay there for the rest of your life.
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Well...
I have dealt with Russian trolls and alt-right trolls, but never a North-Korean troll. May I suggest you visit North-Korea and particularly one of its fun new ”holiday gulags”? If you are lucky you may get to stay there for the rest of your life.
I’m not North Korean, I just support their right to self determination. Plus obviously triggering the hell out of liberals and conservatives 😂

I do plan on going. As I’m not going there and telling them how to live I’m not go to a gulag. Simple really.

Edit: also, what is the difference between ‘trolls’ and people you disagree with politically? Is there any distinction and is there some objective criteria?
Last edited by Alt Tankie; 3 days ago
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by pepe the prophet)
Seems you answered your own question if you enjoy triggering liberals and conservatives you are a troll and not a good faith actor in this discussion.

1 -Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

For me I would say that's down the the fact that we believe in individualism and today's left seems to be collectivist in nature with all those hate filled groups ranging from black lives matter the feminists and militant groups like antifa and momentum as well as organisations like hope not hate witch by this point is just a hate figure in its own right.
These sort of activists want group rights not individual rights and that's the opposite of what we believe.

2. -Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

Based on the political compass test you can be centre left or right liberal I myself find I often flip flop a bit on the compass test and sometimes land on the left or right but allways liberal.

3. -Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

I would have to say no not strictly speaking but given the obnoxious nature of today's left and there tendency to turn on there own if you happen to disagree with there cult like behaviour liberals like myself have been pushed out of the left because we disagree with things like gender is spectrum, open borders, freedom of speech and much more.
In short the left has abandoned classical liberal values and left people like myself feeling like we have nowhere else to turn but the right.

4. -Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?

No I have voted labour for most of my life up till Corbyn and his band of merry s***e hawks came along with his far left marxist economic policy's and his plans to violate property rights not to mention the labour party's constant anti white anti male rhetoric from the likes of Angela Reyner and Jess Philips and Diane Abbot
And then there is Mr stay out of Africa whitey David Lammy A man who just cant stop spewing verbal diarrhoea about how evil white Britain is he just cant shut up about colonialism slavery and stuff like the crusades telling us how evil Britain is. no matter the debate/topic Lammy will somehow manage to shoehorn in the subject of the British empire colonialism and slavery in to the discourse, seriously its all he has digging up imperial history and inserting it in to modern debate where it dosent belong and has no relevance.
Honestly I have no idea how someone with such a negative view on Britain got elected in the first place.

I cant in good faith vote for the Tory's either because they just represent cronie capitalism to me and they are just too cucked by political correctness not to mention there support for hate speech policy's I'm pretty sure in the privacy of the election booth May voted labour.
I voted UKIP in the MEP elections recently for the simple reason they are the only party whose manifesto stated there support for free speech and plans to challenge the prevailing oppressive PC culture that's eroding all our individual rights.
How does that make me a troll or/ and and a bad faith actor? I have coherent and internally consistent political beliefs and do not flip/flop. I do get a ride out of upsetting morons on the Internet with my political beliefs but that is an unintended bonus snd what happens when you have revolutionary views.,

On to your points.

1: sure but that’s why they’re winning. The right needs to ditch individualism and embrace collectivism which is how you win and survive. Oh and capitalism Too but that’s a different story.

3: centre right liberals are just as cringed and Whitney as people like BLM etc.

4: what’s so radical about labours economic policies under Corbyn? Have you even read them?

Agreed about the anti whiteness of certain MPs.

Well the reason Lammy got elected suggests that his views are popular in his very diverse constituency. It’s amusing that you prioritised their supposed attack on property rights over their anti white attacks. This is a very conservative mentality which is why you’ve been losing the culture war for so long.,if you’re only political views are ‘much property rights’ and ‘government leave me alone!’ Then you’re rightly going to get rail roaded.

Your last paragraph is the only thing I agree with you on, although I voted Brexit party because I knew UKIP were going to get slaughtered
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LiberOfLondon
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I do oppose the Pepe the Frog lot, but property rights are human rights (as per Article 17 of the UDHR).
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by pepe the prophet)
Seems you answered your own question if you enjoy triggering liberals and conservatives you are a troll and not a good faith actor in this discussion.

1 -Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

For me I would say that's down the the fact that we believe in individualism and today's left seems to be collectivist in nature with all those hate filled groups ranging from black lives matter the feminists and militant groups like antifa and momentum as well as organisations like hope not hate witch by this point is just a hate figure in its own right.
These sort of activists want group rights not individual rights and that's the opposite of what we believe.

2. -Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

Based on the political compass test you can be centre left or right liberal I myself find I often flip flop a bit on the compass test and sometimes land on the left or right but allways liberal.

3. -Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

I would have to say no not strictly speaking but given the obnoxious nature of today's left and there tendency to turn on there own if you happen to disagree with there cult like behaviour liberals like myself have been pushed out of the left because we disagree with things like gender is spectrum, open borders, freedom of speech and much more.
In short the left has abandoned classical liberal values and left people like myself feeling like we have nowhere else to turn but the right.

4. -Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?

No I have voted labour for most of my life up till Corbyn and his band of merry s***e hawks came along with his far left marxist economic policy's and his plans to violate property rights not to mention the labour party's constant anti white anti male rhetoric from the likes of Angela Reyner and Jess Philips and Diane Abbot
And then there is Mr stay out of Africa whitey David Lammy A man who just cant stop spewing verbal diarrhoea about how evil white Britain is he just cant shut up about colonialism slavery and stuff like the crusades telling us how evil Britain is. no matter the debate/topic Lammy will somehow manage to shoehorn in the subject of the British empire colonialism and slavery in to the discourse, seriously its all he has digging up imperial history and inserting it in to modern debate where it dosent belong and has no relevance.
Honestly I have no idea how someone with such a negative view on Britain got elected in the first place.

I cant in good faith vote for the Tory's either because they just represent cronie capitalism to me and they are just too cucked by political correctness not to mention there support for hate speech policy's I'm pretty sure in the privacy of the election booth May voted labour.
I voted UKIP in the MEP elections recently for the simple reason they are the only party whose manifesto stated there support for free speech and plans to challenge the prevailing oppressive PC culture that's eroding all our individual rights.
How does that make me a troll or/ and and a bad faith actor? I have coherent and internally consistent political beliefs and do not flip/flop. I do get a ride out of upsetting morons on the Internet with my political beliefs but that is an unintended bonus snd what happens when you have revolutionary views.,

On to your points.

1: sure but that’s why they’re winning. The right needs to ditch individualism and embrace collectivism which is how you win and survive. Oh and capitalism Too but that’s a different story.

3: centre right liberals are just as cringed and Whitney as people like BLM etc.

4: what’s so radical about labours economic policies under Corbyn? Have you even read them?

Agreed about the anti whiteness of certain MPs.

Well the reason Lammy got elected suggests that his views are popular in his very diverse constituency. It’s amusing that you prioritised their supposed attack on property rights over their anti white attacks. This is a very conservative mentality which is why you’ve been losing the culture war for so long.,if you’re only political views are ‘much property rights’ and ‘government leave me alone!’ Then you’re rightly going to get rail roaded.

Your last paragraph is the only thing I agree with you on, although I voted Brexit party because I knew UKIP were going to get slaughtered
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pepe the prophet
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sorry Alt Tankie as much as i would love to have this conversation with you I don't want to derail the conversation.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
Classical-liberals also tend to be socially conservative.
They may, but they don't have to.
Classical liberalism assumes that the state shouldn't decide how people should live, as long as their lifestyle doesn't limit the freedom of other people.

(Original post by Alt Tankie)
-it’s economically and socially liberal. So basically they’re wrong about everything.
Why do you say so?
Can you actually give examples of things they are wrong about, and explain why?
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FakeNewsEditor
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The way YOU define classical liberalism, namely xenophobic, demi-conservative nationalism, yeah it is far-right. That is not classical liberalism. It has been hijacked these past few years by alt-right Yiannopoulean trolls. The classical liberalism I am familiar with is culturally liberal, economically liberal and socially liberal. I.e. in favour of drug legalisation, gay marriage but also in favour of free markets and free trade (including - be still my heart - a relatively open immigration policy).
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pepe the prophet
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
I do oppose the Pepe the Frog lot, but property rights are human rights (as per Article 17 of the UDHR).
Cant imagine why you opose those who meme the frog in my experience most of those guys have more in common with liberals than anyone else.

Its the very reason I embrace the kekistani identity because it mocks the collectivist identity politics of both the far left and the far right, more so the far left these days witch is largely due to the fact they hold so much institutional power.
I know there are some on the likes of 4chan who embrace it as a far right symbol thanks to Hillary Clinton but in my experience they don't represent the majority of us who meme the frog, I personally disavow racism in all its forms be it from the real alt right or the far left anti white rhetoric of the labour party.
I don't go around posting pepe memes to troll people unless they insult me first I usual go in to these types of conversations with the notion that the person I am speaking to might know something I don't
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Qup
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I think you are confusing liberal economics with the right to be a racist thug without challenge.
I wonder what your definition of the term is.
(Original post by AnxiousAtypical)
-Why do self-proclaimed classical liberals get labelled as ‘far right’

-Is classical liberalism a left leaning centre or right leaning centre ideology?

-Are Classical liberalism is another word for a modern day conservative especially Trump supporters?

-Do classical liberals usually support parties like UKIP, Brexit Party & For Britain?
Self-proclaimed classical liberals are often assigned the term "far-right", because it is a convenient way of demonising them and dissuading others to discuss with them. Their ideology is kind of centrist I believe and no, it isn't another term for conservative or Trump supporter.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
Why do you say so?
Can you actually give examples of things they are wrong about, and explain why?
And yet they tend to be socially conservative. Their political philosophy very much depends on the sanctity of private property ownership and its defence by the state. Private property (which for the purposes of this discussion means land ownership) is as much a social construct as things like taxes and the NHS of course but they don't like that characterisation.
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Last edited by BeetRoots; 2 days ago
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