The Student Room Group

Should I apply for PPE at Oxford?

I am completely split on whether to apply for Oxford.
My teachers and head of sixth are keen for me to do so, but I believe my GCSE results could hold me back from getting an offer.
I wish I had got my head down sooner, as this year has shown me what I can achieve when I put in the hard work.
Please help me out with any suggestions.

What did you get at GCSE?

I didn't try and it showed. 3 A's, 4B's, 3 C's

What A levels are you studying?

Economics, English Language, Politics and EPQ

What are your target/predicted grades?

Economics - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
English Language - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
Politics - A*
EPQ - A* (achieved)

What extracurricular do you do?

Large amount of wider reading, lots of sports, writing for local papers and school magazine etc

What course will you be applying for?

Philosophy, Politics and Economics

What colleges are you interested in and why?

Somerville College - Need to research these in more depth.

Why Oxford and not Cambridge?

Cambridge is too close to where I live and Cambridge doesn't offer PPE

Scroll to see replies

Here are some statistics you can look at:

Page 2, figure 2

https://www.ppe.ox.ac.uk/images/ppe_website_course_statistics_16-17_final.pdf

Hope this helps. Do you have any extenuating circumstances?
Original post by LFCfan2019
I am completely split on whether to apply for Oxford.
My teachers and head of sixth are keen for me to do so, but I believe my GCSE results could hold me back from getting an offer.
I wish I had got my head down sooner, as this year has shown me what I can achieve when I put in the hard work.
Please help me out with any suggestions.

What did you get at GCSE?

I didn't try and it showed. 3 A's, 4B's, 3 C's

What A levels are you studying?

Economics, English Language, Politics and EPQ

What are your target/predicted grades?

Economics - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
English Language - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
Politics - A*
EPQ - A* (achieved)

What extracurricular do you do?

Large amount of wider reading, lots of sports, writing for local papers and school magazine etc

What course will you be applying for?

Philosophy, Politics and Economics

What colleges are you interested in and why?

Somerville College - Need to research these in more depth.

Why Oxford and not Cambridge?

Cambridge is too close to where I live and Cambridge doesn't offer PPE
Reply 2
Thanks for your advice.

I have at least 4-6 other Unis that I am very interested in so therefore haven't thought about this.

I will discuss it with parents and teachers.

Thanks.
I would study maths, it is often more helpful at uni as so much of economics is maths.
Reply 4
That is somewhat of a regret of mine.
Original post by Crapaud8
I would study maths, it is often more helpful at uni as so much of economics is maths.
Look at the Oxford uni PPE webpage. Maths A level is helpful but not essential

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics
Original post by LFCfan2019
That is somewhat of a regret of mine.
Yeah, from my experience of applying to economics you find that maths is necessary whereas economics isn't as valued at a level.

I applied for Cambridge and the admissions tutor I talked to even said that they find students who haven't done economics at a level often perform better at uni then people who have.

Tbh, from my experience of applying to Cambridge, I found that it was a waste of time and made me feel more stress then I needed. I didn't practice much for the entrance exam and it definitely showed so I didn't get in. I found this frustrating as it felt like I wasted a university application. (I would have applied to Durham otherwise).

However, applying to Cambridge gave me preferential treatment at my sixth form so got more help on my personal statement then others. I did feel times restrained though having to give it in so early.

I think you need to think to yourself as to whether you're really going to try to you hardest for the entrance exam and whether you want the extra stress and pressure for not being if you don't try.
You will struggle at the economics side without maths. I know it's not essential but it will save you a lot of grief. Many universities say that further maths is helpful for economics, so that shows the amount of maths knowledge you will need.
Original post by Oxford Mum
Look at the Oxford uni PPE webpage. Maths A level is helpful but not essential

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/philosophy-politics-and-economics
Also you will need to sit the TSA (thinking skills assessment), so look at the papers and assess how well you could tackle it.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/tests/tsa
https://www.admissionstesting.org/for-test-takers/thinking-skills-assessment/tsa-oxford/preparing-for-tsa-oxford/
Original post by LFCfan2019
I am completely split on whether to apply for Oxford.
My teachers and head of sixth are keen for me to do so, but I believe my GCSE results could hold me back from getting an offer.
I wish I had got my head down sooner, as this year has shown me what I can achieve when I put in the hard work.
Please help me out with any suggestions.

What did you get at GCSE?

I didn't try and it showed. 3 A's, 4B's, 3 C's

What A levels are you studying?

Economics, English Language, Politics and EPQ

What are your target/predicted grades?

Economics - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
English Language - A+ (Teacher willing to raise to an A*)
Politics - A*
EPQ - A* (achieved)

What extracurricular do you do?

Large amount of wider reading, lots of sports, writing for local papers and school magazine etc

What course will you be applying for?

Philosophy, Politics and Economics

What colleges are you interested in and why?

Somerville College - Need to research these in more depth.

Why Oxford and not Cambridge?

Cambridge is too close to where I live and Cambridge doesn't offer PPE
I would note something like 95% of successful applicants to Oxford PPE have A-level Maths. Additionally, generally Oxford emphasises GCSEs heavily in the admissions process in determining who they will shortlist and invite to interview, and on top of the PPE is one of their most popular courses, so there is a lot of well qualified competition already.

To be honest, unless you have significant extenuating circumstances for your GCSEs and the only reason you aren't taking A-level Maths is because your school doesn't offer it, I really doubt you would even get an interview. Perhaps if you take a gap year, take A-level Maths, and apply with very good (i.e. better than AAA) A-level grades already achieved, it might be a possibility. As it is, I think it's an unrealistic consideration.

As above, economics is necessarily mathematical at university level, and contrary to popular belief it is not just simple descriptive statistics as you'll have done in GCSE. You need calculus, perhaps a touch of analysis too, matrices (and perhaps some proper linear algebra), and all the associated "basic" algebra and functions work which supports that. If you aren't happy doing lots of maths, you won't enjoy economics at university.
(edited 4 years ago)
Sounds like good advice to me. Only a 12% chance of getting in with this course.
Original post by artful_lounger
I would note something like 95% of successful applicants to Oxford PPE have A-level Maths. Additionally, generally Oxford emphasises GCSEs heavily in the admissions process in determining who they will shortlist and invite to interview, and on top of the PPE is one of their most popular courses, so there is a lot of well qualified competition already.

To be honest, unless you have significant extenuating circumstances for your GCSEs and you the only reason you aren't taking A-level Maths is because your school doesn't offer it, I really doubt you would even get an interview. Perhaps if you take a gap year, take A-level Maths, and apply with very good (i.e. better than AAA) A-level grades already achieved, it might be a possibility. As it is, I think it's an unrealistic consideration.

As above, economics is necessarily mathematical at university level, and contrary to popular belief it is not just simple descriptive statistics as you'll have done in GCSE. You need calculus, perhaps a touch of analysis too, matrices (and perhaps some proper linear algebra), and all the associated "basic" algebra and functions work which supports that. If you aren't happy doing lots of maths, you won't enjoy economics at university.
I agree very strongly with this. If you didn't bother at GCSE what says that you won't change, that's what universities are seeing.
Original post by artful_lounger
I would note something like 95% of successful applicants to Oxford PPE have A-level Maths. Additionally, generally Oxford emphasises GCSEs heavily in the admissions process in determining who they will shortlist and invite to interview, and on top of the PPE is one of their most popular courses, so there is a lot of well qualified competition already.

To be honest, unless you have significant extenuating circumstances for your GCSEs and you the only reason you aren't taking A-level Maths is because your school doesn't offer it, I really doubt you would even get an interview. Perhaps if you take a gap year, take A-level Maths, and apply with very good (i.e. better than AAA) A-level grades already achieved, it might be a possibility. As it is, I think it's an unrealistic consideration.

As above, economics is necessarily mathematical at university level, and contrary to popular belief it is not just simple descriptive statistics as you'll have done in GCSE. You need calculus, perhaps a touch of analysis too, matrices (and perhaps some proper linear algebra), and all the associated "basic" algebra and functions work which supports that. If you aren't happy doing lots of maths, you won't enjoy economics at university.
Original post by Crapaud8
I agree very strongly with this. If you didn't bother at GCSE what says that you won't change, that's what universities are seeing.


That was...not my point at all.

Oxford cares about GCSEs, because their research showed it correlates to performance at degree level. Cambridge by comparison doesn't, because their own research showed that A-level performance more strongly correlates with performance at degree level.

If you wish to make derisive comments, please don't use my posts as a platform to do so.
Original post by artful_lounger
That was...not my point at all.

Oxford cares about GCSEs, because their research showed it correlates to performance at degree level. Cambridge by comparison doesn't, because their own research showed that A-level performance more strongly correlates with performance at degree level.

If you wish to make derisive comments, please don't use my posts as a platform to do so.

I would actually suggest OP might have a better chance at Cambridge than Oxford if and only of she took math A level. (Assuming she would apply for economics). They care much lesser about GCSEs and emphasise heavily on the interview.
As OP states, Cambridge doesn't offer PPE. However, Cambridge does offer Philosophy.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/philosophy
Original post by ANO-NI-MUS
I would actually suggest OP might have a better chance at Cambridge than Oxford if and only of she took math A level. (Assuming she would apply for economics). They care much lesser about GCSEs and emphasise heavily on the interview.
Original post by Oxford Mum
As OP states, Cambridge doesn't offer PPE. However, Cambridge does offer Philosophy.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/philosophy


I know Cambridge doesn't offer philosophy. Like I said I was assuming she would take up economics for which she would need math and probably even FM actually. If philosophy, she should be fine. She could also look into HSPS if she wanted to look into politics.
Over to you, OP.
Original post by ANO-NI-MUS
I know Cambridge doesn't offer philosophy. Like I said I was assuming she would take up economics for which she would need math and probably even FM actually. If philosophy, she should be fine. She could also look into HSPS if she wanted to look into politics.
Original post by ANO-NI-MUS
I would actually suggest OP might have a better chance at Cambridge than Oxford if and only of she took math A level. (Assuming she would apply for economics). They care much lesser about GCSEs and emphasise heavily on the interview.


Yes, that was what I said in that post.

Original post by Oxford Mum
Over to you, OP.


Cambridge does offer Land Economy as well, which if they were primarily interested in aspects of economic policy and applications etc, might be of interest (obviously nothing philosophical in that course). It doesn't require A-level Maths, and admissions stats don't suggest they particularly even prefer it (unlike PPE, which states it's not required but clearly heavily prefer applicants to have it). That said, the issue still exists that they will be doing maths in relation to the economics sections, for the most part, so if this is something they have an issue with then that course (and indeed all economics courses) would probably be unsuitable.

Philosophy at Cambridge also has political philosophy papers available in all years, as well as relatedly, ethics options. That said my understanding is the course is overall very analytic flavoured and emphases the theoretical philosophy associated with that school over more "applied" philosophy areas like political philosophy and ethics...
Reply 18
Thank you all so much for your responses.

Moderators are still checking the following post, so let's see if it posts this time:

My Father has Parkinson's, so I could classify myself as somewhat of a young carer.


My Grandfather passed away on the day of my first GCSE exam and therefore I received special consideration. Presumably, this would not be taken
into account.

Would this account to extenuating circumstances?


In relation to A-Level Maths, I simply did not take it as I didn't see myself as strong at it. No other excuses.

In relation to Cambridge, I have a close friend who is applying to do Land Economy - I have looked at it. Personally, it doesn't excite me as PPE does. Further to this, as previously mentioned, I am not considering Cambridge and would much rather end up at one of my three current choices: Sheffield, Manchester, and Birmingham.

Unfortunately, it seems like my GCSE's and the circumstances surrounding them will hold me back. I've changed massively in terms of my outlook to education and it's simply a shame something as important as GCSE's was that turning point.

Thanks once again - I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm.
Original post by LFCfan2019
Thank you all so much for your responses.

Moderators are still checking the following post, so let's see if it posts this time:

My Father has Parkinson's, so I could classify myself as somewhat of a young carer.


My Grandfather passed away on the day of my first GCSE exam and therefore I received special consideration. Presumably, this would not be taken
into account.

Would this account to extenuating circumstances?


In relation to A-Level Maths, I simply did not take it as I didn't see myself as strong at it. No other excuses.

In relation to Cambridge, I have a close friend who is applying to do Land Economy - I have looked at it. Personally, it doesn't excite me as PPE does. Further to this, as previously mentioned, I am not considering Cambridge and would much rather end up at one of my three current choices: Sheffield, Manchester, and Birmingham.

Unfortunately, it seems like my GCSE's and the circumstances surrounding them will hold me back. I've changed massively in terms of my outlook to education and it's simply a shame something as important as GCSE's was that turning point.

Thanks once again - I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm.


Those might be accounted for as extenuating circumstances, although it's hard to advise on how much difference it will make if they are considered as such, but that still leaves the issue of A-level Maths, and the broader problem that if you didn't think you'd do well in A-level Maths its hard to see economics at university being a suitable course for you.

I would perhaps suggest you look at courses in e.g. Politics & Philosophy, if those areas are of interest, as those will cover two of the three areas of PPE, and some courses have options in the history of economic thought and/or philosophy of economics (e.g. LSE) which might appeal to your interest in economics, without being necessarily mathematical as economics itself is. They might also have options in political economy, which likewise may pique your interest without being as inherently mathematical as the core (micro)economic/econometric theory any economics degree student (even joint honours) will usually end up taking.

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