Will Brexit be like the collapse of the Soviet Union? Watch

desou
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#61
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#61
(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
Without EU migrants, we'd be poorer, our surgery and NHS waiting times would be longer, our trains would have less free seats, and our schools would be more overcrowded.

Are you even reading what you are writing?
Yes, are you understanding it? Obviously not.
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maachu_pichuu
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(Original post by desou)
Yes, are you understanding it? Obviously not.
Why don't you house EU immigrants then? Since you are such a saint.
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Alt Tankie
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His own sources contradict his argument which he has cherrypicked for that moment. I presume he is playing with statistics.

Sorry I do not believe any human is infallible not even oxford dons in geography 👍🏻

(Original post by desou)
Mate, its Danny Dorling, Oxford don and the number 1 expert in Brexit voting patterns. I've met Danny a few times, he knows his stuff. I guarantee he knows a lot more about this than you do.

If you disagree with Danny, you're an idiot.
Last edited by Alt Tankie; 1 month ago
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
You can't guarantee anything mate when the border is open for any tom, **** or harry to walk over. I want SKILLED immigrants, I don't want polish people with no education claiming benefits and putting pressure on our schools and NHS. What is to stop them coming over? Unskilled immigration is no benefit to this country, we have plenty of people who could do those jobs.

I would say this max influx of unskilled people from the EU has ruined the UK, look at your surgery and NHS waiting times, look at the trains (you will be lucky if you get a seat), look at the schools. Our country has been ruined because of the EU mass immigration of people with little to no education.
No I disagree. Desou is right about this. EU immigration is not the problem. That’s why Nigel Farage stood in front of a poster of people from Muslim countries not of a load of polish people. It’s not Romanians that have blown people up or had rape gangs.

The Tories have blamed Eastern European’s so they can try and get out of being called racist, because conservatives are just cowards.

desou

Clever think tanks have got all sorts of clever ways to misrepresent the data.

Immigration is indeed a net benefit to the U.K., for instance in particular from the EU.

But in total The reason why it is a net gain is because of the top percentile- eg top business people etc. The bottom quadrant is a huge net loss - eg a cleaner from Cameroon comes here with six children- that’s a huge cost to our nhs, schools etc. The same is true of the impact on wages.
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maachu_pichuu
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
No I disagree. Desou is right about this. EU immigration is not the problem. That’s why Nigel Farage stood in front of a poster of people from Muslim countries not of a load of polish people. It’s not Romanians that have blown people up or had rape gangs.

The Tories have blamed Eastern European’s so they can try and get out of being called racist, because conservatives are just cowards.

desou

Clever think tanks have got all sorts of clever ways to misrepresent the data.

Immigration is indeed a net benefit to the U.K., for instance in particular from the EU.

But in total The reason why it is a net gain is because of the top percentile- eg top business people etc. The bottom quadrant is a huge net loss - eg a cleaner from Cameroon comes here with six children- that’s a huge cost to our nhs, schools etc. The same is true of the impact on wages.
I want SKILLED labour from the WORLD, I want people who can open businesses here and create jobs. I don't want cleaners from cameroon.
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Alt Tankie
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#66
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(Original post by maachu_pichuu)
I want SKILLED labour from the WORLD, I want people who can open businesses here and create jobs. I don't want cleaners from cameroon.
Well that’s my point. But the EU immigration is majority skilled. The main problem is Non EU immigration which the U.K. DOES have control over and various governments have blamed this on the EU. Various brexiteers have even said they want immigration to increase once we leave the EU!
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by desou)
Yes, are you understanding it? Obviously not.
OK well maybe explain you're point better rarther than just calling anyone who disagrees a 'massive racist' or an 'idiot'. This is really grating on us now, the remainer superior intelligence mask really has slipped, so far it's driffed off down the sewer!

Leaving the EU is about the ability to control more, control does not necessarily mean reduce!

You're points make me smile a little, do you not think we would be better to home grow skills, with the millions of EU money we spend per week. Think how many of the younger generation lives we could transform? I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing remainer 'Eeyore's' moaning consistently about how useless we are, and how we are thick and stupid and cannot produce, doctors, nurses engineers etc. Ludicrous
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
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Peanutbutter420
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#68
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I can’t get a respons on my thread so I’m going to post it on here, I need an psn gamertag, do I go with ik1lledbill, blondenutella or peanutbutter420

(Original post by Ratchet Hoe)
This sounds stupid but the economy will go down, and the vibes will change. Will it be similar?
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Peanutbutter420
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#69
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Lol I was post 69
(Original post by Peanutbutter420)
I can’t get a respons on my thread so I’m going to post it on here, I need an psn gamertag, do I go with ik1lledbill, blondenutella or peanutbutter420
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
It’s capitalism that’s destroying society. I value my children’s happiness and welfare above working for some corporation that views then as replaceable cogs.
Fair enough. So let's all live in commune and eat lentils.

Or you could educate yourself and family and choose your own destiny. That surely is more empowering than sitting around hoping someone else will look after you no?
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Fair enough. So let's all live in commune and eat lentils.

Or you could educate yourself and family and choose your own destiny. That surely is more empowering than sitting around hoping someone else will look after you no?
He's right, you don't have to zoom direct the exteme. It's not capitalism or communism there are stops on the way. We found many in this county in the past.
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Fair enough. So let's all live in commune and eat lentils.

Or you could educate yourself and family and choose your own destiny. That surely is more empowering than sitting around hoping someone else will look after you no?
You are living in the past. If we have a truly progressive government for the people and begin Nationalising key industries as well as automation means many of us will not need to work for corporations.

I am basically for a Chinese model with very small scale capitalism on the lower levels, things like pubs, local shops and food and drink. Competition need not exist for most things.

I am not a anarchist layabout. Work is good for society and the soul but it must be meaningful - eg A wide range of public services Roles. Not working in a call centre etc
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
You are living in the past. If we have a truly progressive government for the people and begin Nationalising key industries as well as automation means many of us will not need to work for corporations.

I am basically for a Chinese model with very small scale capitalism on the lower levels, things like pubs, local shops and food and drink. Competition need not exist for most things.

I am not a anarchist layabout. Work is good for society and the soul but it must be meaningful - eg A wide range of public services Roles. Not working in a call centre etc
Interesting. So how do we pay all the wages of the public sector workers? And without large corporations, I take it we would have to do away with any form of technology? Alas the specialisms developed through an efficient capitalist model are not available in a socialist model.

I like your ideas. They just don't work. See USSR and 1980s China for examples.

Incidentally, China has a full scale capitalist economy with a single party government. There is nothing communist about China other than the word used to describe the party in power.
Last edited by ByEeek; 1 month ago
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Alt Tankie
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Interesting. So how do we pay all the wages of the public sector workers? And without large corporations, I take it we would have to do away with any form of technology? Alas the specialisms developed through an efficient capitalist model are not available in a socialist model.

I like your ideas. They just don't work. See USSR and 1980s China for examples.
We are not living the 1900s and 1980s. As I said wrong century. Technology is rapidly growing. Why do we need to have x amount of broadband, energy, transport providers?

I propose adopting a Chinese state capitalist model and then phasing in more companies in line with public interest.

I am also not interested in the continuous and unsustainable growth model of capitalism. I would want to lower growth to a more sustainable level land prioritise other things then mindless consumerism. I more or less agree with the Green Party except their insane social liberalism and open borders policies, in fact There'd be very little immigration at all.
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BeetRoots
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We'll see EU protections eroded, we might see Scotland leave the UK, we might see renewed troubles in NI, we'll see recession and an end to investment to regions which have often involved EU money. Brexit is a turn to fascism and racism, it's a disaster.
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uberteknik
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#76
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Yawn

The USSR (for all its flaws) was a successful bastion of anti imperialism, mass wealth redistribution and a technological superpower. The EU is none of those things and is instead a neoliberal asset stripper, mass immigration and other social ills. More people miss the USSR than will ever miss the EU
You tit.
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Burton Bridge
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#77
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
We'll see EU protections eroded, we might see Scotland leave the UK, we might see renewed troubles in NI, we'll see recession and an end to investment to regions which have often involved EU money. Brexit is a turn to fascism and racism, it's a disaster.
Nonsense absolute nonsense. Brexit is a call for control you're trump card (racists) has lost its ink... Over use
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ByEeek
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#78
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
We are not living the 1900s and 1980s. As I said wrong century. Technology is rapidly growing. Why do we need to have x amount of broadband, energy, transport providers?

I would want to lower growth to a more sustainable level land prioritise other things then mindless consumerism.
I agree with this. But a regulated capitalist model is perfect to achieve this. You simply tax the things you don't want and the efficiency of private enterprise innovates to overcome the barrier. Capitalism regulated in the right way is perfectly poised to tackle climate change for example.

The trouble with centralised systems is that well meaning policies are gamed and create unintended consequences. For example there are well documented examples of this around NHS waiting time limits and educational targets.
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LiberOfLondon
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(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Yawn

The USSR (for all its flaws) was a successful bastion of anti imperialism, mass wealth redistribution and a technological superpower. The EU is none of those things and is instead a neoliberal asset stripper, mass immigration and other social ills. More people miss the USSR than will ever miss the EU
Is this satire??

IMHO Brexit triggering a Soviet style collapse will only happen if we leave cleanly and make a success of it. The main populist/Eurosceptic movements on the Continent are in a nice list for you below:
France: Rassemblement National/La France Insoumise - most likely to leave after Britain and both involved in the Gilets Jaunes.
Germany: Alternativ Für Deutschland - not doing well as far-right movements aren't (for obvious reasons) popular in Germany.
Finland: Perussuomalaiset - always get 20% but never more.
Italy: Lega Nord/M5S - in government.
Spain: Vox - not liked as Spain had a Fascist dictatorship in living memory.

IMHO Italy/France are most likely to leave.
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your_confident
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I don't think that it will be that bad. The older gereration (still beliving in the Nazis reported in the SUN), who have no idea whatsoever what benifits the EU has to offer, think of the old times where England was a world power and there were no foreigners from the east block living next door. The younger generation is getting screwed but not getting kissed.
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