Unpopular opinion: The USSR was a good country

OP

Original post by 999tigger

Your profile says you have only just sat GCSE and you are waiting for your results?

Yes, I intend to do it at A-Level, and given my mock results in which I got As, I would say that it would be pretty hard for me not to be doing them. I've always been interested in Russian/soviet history so did it alongside my GCSEs just for my own knowledge.

Reply 62

OP

Original post by 999tigger

The majority of troops who landed on the D-Day beaches were from the United Kingdom, Canada and the US. However, troops from many other countries participated in D-Day and the Battle of Normandy: Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland.

Yes but many such as the greeks weren't actually fighting for their government, because they were under occupation from the Axis. But its still ironic to have Germany there.

Reply 63

999tigger

Original post by kali8603

Having met self proclaimed communists, there are so many different factions in the far left internally, everyone has a different definition of communism. As I said, I would not call myself a communist, because I believe in socialism in a single country, I don't believe international revolution is possible. In the Czech Republic, the communist party is very influential, as in Russia. Those eastern european countries that are now members of the EU are generally anti Russian because of the occupation. They didn't have a revolution of their own like Russia did. So its understandable they want to distance themselves, especailly given the invasion of Czechoslovakia and the Soviet response to the Hungarian Uprisings. However, many eastern european countries like Moldova, Georgia, Belarus..Look at this video of moldova. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnDxHTaeNX0. Everyone he asks wants the soviet union back. See why?

There is no truly communist country, they are socialist countries. Socialism worked fine in Yugoslavia. Until it collapsed like the USSR ,because of rampant nationalism that wasn't controlled after Tito left and Gorbachev came in for the USSR. I don't understand the whole economics of Cuba, but it is working there. Certainly there haven't been any noticeable anti socialist sentiment there. I know you're going to dispute me on this, but China is a socialist country. Yes, I know its some what of a free market, but it is still restricted, and it is still technically communist. They've lifted 800 million people out of poverty since 1978. Communism is also working out just fine in Vietnam. No counter revolutions there.

I like how I answer all your points and then you ignore them. Your essays are going to be A* material.
You do realise the USSR massively subsidised certain of its allies just like the USA does.

Communism doesnt work.
The USSR lost the cold war not because of the USA but because its own people gave up on something that gave them a crap standard of living and no political freedoms. the communists in China would have no chance of staying in power if it wasnt for capitalism.

Reply 64

999tigger

Original post by kali8603

Yes but many such as the greeks weren't actually fighting for their government, because they were under occupation from the Axis. But its still ironic to have Germany there.

You are being naive and ignorant. Just admit you were wrong.
The reasons the Germans were there was a sign of remembrance.

Reply 65

lastlullabyy

21

Original post by 999tigger

I like how I answer all your points and then you ignore them. Your essays are going to be A* material.
You do realise the USSR massively subsidised certain of its allies just like the USA does.

Communism doesnt work.
The USSR lost the cold war not because of the USA but because its own people gave up on something that gave them a crap standard of living and no political freedoms. the communists in China would have no chance of staying in power if it wasnt for capitalism.

I don’t think we can win here 😂 not sure if there will be A* material essays as I believe they need facts not just personal beliefs based on not much knowledge or experience.

I fully agree with you, @999tigger.

Reply 66

OP

a

Original post by 999tigger

I like how I answer all your points and then you ignore them. Your essays are going to be A* material.
You do realise the USSR massively subsidised certain of its allies just like the USA does.

Communism doesnt work.
The USSR lost the cold war not because of the USA but because its own people gave up on something that gave them a crap standard of living and no political freedoms. the communists in China would have no chance of staying in power if it wasnt for capitalism.

The USSR lost the cold war because of nationalism. Now listen here. The USSR was not communist. Have you read any Marxist theory, or any actual communist theory? It's completely different to what the USSR was Now, I'm inclined to agree with you, because I am a Socialist. But, I am naturally sympathetic to my communist friends, and ultimately, communism has GOOD INTENTIONS whereas capitalism doesn't. If it wasn't for sanctions, maybe the communism you mention would be more successful. And China is a socialist country. It's market economy is similar to that of Yugoslavia, which was 100% socialist. Yugoslavia was a neutral country in the cold war and resisted Stalin. Yugoslavia would have been fine if it wasn't for the radical Muslim Bosniaks who effectively wanted a Sharia state. The Croats too wanted out. Not surprising, given they were on the side of the Nazis during WW2.

Reply 67

The RAR

21

Which is worse, Nazi Germany or the USSR? Hmm....tough question

Reply 68

OP

Original post by lastlullabyy

I don’t think we can win here 😂 not sure if there will be A* material essays as I believe they need facts not just personal beliefs based on not much knowledge or experience.

I fully agree with you, @999tigger.

Yes, facts. The fact is, is that the USSR genuinely had better living standards than portrayed in western countries. It also had far less people sent to Gulags then referenced. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2011/03/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/

Reply 69

OP

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

Original post by The RAR

Which is worse, Nazi Germany or the USSR? Hmm....tough question

Easy, Nazi Germany. Why? USSR's ideology was socialism, which is built on the noble ideal of helping others and putting people before profit. Whatever your opinion, that is the basis of socialism you can't dispute. Whereas nazi germany was built on the version of Facism known as Nazism, which is built on the idea of a superior race and the fundamental belief of racism being central to their ideology.

Reply 70

Andrew97

20

capitalism may not be perfect, but they never had to build a wall to keep their people in.

Reply 71

lastlullabyy

21

Original post by Andrew97

capitalism may not be perfect, but they never had to build a wall to keep their people in.

Precisely.

Reply 72

OP

Original post by Andrew97

capitalism may not be perfect, but they never had to build a wall to keep their people in.

I don't agree with the wall being built. Listen to the left wing anthem, The Internationale. It specifically says "let no one build walls to divide us, walls of hatred, walls of stone". Direct opposition. As said, I really didn't support what the soviets did to eastern and central europe.

Reply 73

OP

Original post by lastlullabyy

Precisely.

They just build walls to keep people out. They don't need to let people leave. They can get cheap, exploitative labour easily.

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 74

999tigger

Original post by lastlullabyy

I don’t think we can win here 😂 not sure if there will be A* material essays as I believe they need facts not just personal beliefs based on not much knowledge or experience.

I fully agree with you, @999tigger.

Yes its very much a lost cause, which is not a good sign for A level.
The whole OP is on the basis the USSR was a good country, wheres I think a Historian would just accept the USSR was and then ask for the question. I would want to know what good meant in this context, which would also include good for whom?

It appears the OP just wants to go on about how they believe in communism, but cant really explain or accept why virtually everyone has rejected it and that it failed for good reasons. Apparently its going to make a comeback in Russia according to the OP so we will see.

I am somewhat disappointed as they could have made some good points, but hopefully they will have a good history teacher and be smart enough to realise how to undertake an objective assessment. Not really my concern though.

Reply 75

OP

My grandparents actually went to the USSR several times, as well as Cuba and Czechoslovakia ,as well as Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. I know they won't have experienced a normal time there as they were tourists, but still. Heck, they used to play the USSR anthem every weekend out their window. If there is anything I do condemn about the USSR, is their intolerance towards religion. I know church and state must be seperate, fair enough, and I know that religion can often hold societies back, but destroying historic sites such as churches, as a christian I don't agree with that at all. That is probably the most contentious point of the USSR for me.

Reply 76

OP

Original post by 999tigger

Yes its very much a lost cause, which is not a good sign for A level.
The whole OP is on the basis the USSR was a good country, wheres I think a Historian would just accept the USSR was and then ask for the question. I would want to know what good meant in this context, which would also include good for whom?

It appears the OP just wants to go on about how they believe in communism, but cant really explain or accept why virtually everyone has rejected it and that it failed for good reasons. Apparently its going to make a comeback in Russia according to the OP so we will see.

I am somewhat disappointed as they could have made some good points, but hopefully they will have a good history teacher and be smart enough to realise how to undertake an objective assessment. Not really my concern though.

This isn't a history essay, and I've said before I'm not a communist. The USSR was good for many reasons. It provided job securities, (from historical records, it was known there were actually too many workers in some places), it had a welfare state, universal healthcare, a sense of belonging to something bigger, and there were inevitably rewards for being a high ranking member of the party. The USSR did have a pretty horrendous human rights record, but doesn't the west have at the very least a dodgy human rights record when it comes to how its conducted itself overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan? Not to mention colonialism.

As said, many people in Russia are still sympathetic to communism to this day, many Soviet traditions are being brought back such as the exercise program "Get Ready for Labour and Defense". Stalin is still idolised (which I don't think he should be),as is Lenin. Russia was in a terrible state after the USSR. Their president was a drunk and an embarrassment.

Russia is however an exception regarding socialism. Russia has always been obsessed with territorial expansion, whereas other countries like the US, whilst they were built on revolution and later adopted territorial expansion through Manifest destiny, eventually used their economic power to break and subjugate countries. This is why Russia to this day is behind everywhere else economically. Most socialist countries are not preoccupied with territorial expansion, with maybe perhaps China, but now China is using its economic influence on poorer countries through the Belt and Road initiative.

Putin's popularity is fading. Raising the retirement age to 65 was a mistake. Whilst I think annexing Crimea was the right thing to do, it did serve as a distraction from the failing economy. Many people in Russia want reforms, and the Communist Party is the only real opposition. Russian politics are extremely created, and Putin's party doesn't even hold much of an ideology, it merely serves as a platform for him.

As said, its the poorer countries that want socialism back. Because they were better off under them than they are now. You will never hear the same sentiment in Poland for example because they've become quite well off.

Reply 77

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