Election Day petition Watch

ElectionDay
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#21
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#21
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I don't like your motives. It seems like your doing this purely for political gain because you expect a higher youth-turn out to aid your party/politics.

That being said, I don't see a good counter argument to putting voting day on a weekend, the small cost seems easily offset by the advantages/ease of voting that it would cause.

Personally, I would put it on a saturday if I had 100% control, but thats not because I think saturday is better for the nation as a whole, sunday does make more sense.. but I love election nights and the coverage of results coming in. A saturday election, would be great as I wouldn't need to work the morning after, meaning staying up all night to follow the results would be just a little nicer.
Its very difficult to get people to sign an academic petition. It needs minimum of 10,000 signatures to get a response, and 100,000 to get a debate. Nearly all the petitions with high numbers have a huge emotional drive behind them.

If you look at the internet its full of academic papers why we get more centre right when old but for whatever the reason is does appear to be a political reality and there will be a great deal more pensioners as more baby boomers retire. Its going to get worse.

Sunday is better than Saturday for many reasons here are another two that you might not have thought of:
a) Sunday allows activists all of Saturday to help get the vote out (worker activists cant do Wednesdays). And before you say it, you are actually allowed to do some election work on the day before the election.
b) academics in USA have found that if you have some form of election festival or party it gets another 6% on top of any bonus from Sunday so stuff like getting a sticker balloon etc for the kids is another 6%.
Please TSR people support the petition - you dont have to believe in all the details signing really means you want it to be debated (pros and cons). Currently, if you look at my stats we are the worst: please sign: Thanks https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/263133
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Quady
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#22
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#22
(Original post by ElectionDay)
Yes agreed that is an outlier. Not sure why so high. New Caledonia (Independence from France in 2018) only got an 80% turnout. Obviously its of critical importance.
You might want to think about the value of peoples vote rather than the day of the poll.

In recent general elections relatively few seats change hands. Fewer still are close/surprise changes. The SNP sweep in 2015 for example was a foregone conclusion. Voting was rather pointless but turnout was significantly up as the safe seats were being reassigned.
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ElectionDay
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Quady)
You might want to think about the value of peoples vote rather than the day of the poll.

In recent general elections relatively few seats change hands. Fewer still are close/surprise changes. The SNP sweep in 2015 for example was a foregone conclusion. Voting was rather pointless but turnout was significantly up as the safe seats were being reassigned.
You might want to think I've gone through many months of this and clearly the Scottish Indy ref is an outlier as there are no Indy Refs in developed EU nations that I can compare it to. Catalonia was "illegal" and greenland was for a regional assembly not independence. Please assume I have done the basics. If you read the facebook link of 31 points you will see I've probably covered a great deal more than you have thought of. If you have a point that is not in the 31 please feel free to raise it - or if you think some of the 31 points have errors please let me know (I'm not being rude but to tell the guy who started the petition "you might want to think about..." probably isn't doing me justice: https://www.facebook.com/john.hawtho...05613218806698
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Quady
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#24
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#24
(Original post by ElectionDay)
You might want to think I've gone through many months of this and clearly the Scottish Indy ref is an outlier as there are no Indy Refs in developed EU nations that I can compare it to. Catalonia was "illegal" and greenland was for a regional assembly not independence. Please assume I have done the basics. If you read the facebook link of 31 points you will see I've probably covered a great deal more than you have thought of. If you have a point that is not in the 31 please feel free to raise it - or if you think some of the 31 points have errors please let me know (I'm not being rude but to tell the guy who started the petition "you might want to think about..." probably isn't doing me justice: https://www.facebook.com/john.hawtho...05613218806698
I'd read it and none of your 31 points cover FPTP.

Did I miss it?

All of your comparisons are against countries where your vote has more value.
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ElectionDay
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Quady)
I'd read it and none of your 31 points cover FPTP.

Did I miss it?

All of your comparisons are against countries where your vote has more value.
Ireland has PR and worse turnouts then we do.
Scotland does not have FPTP for its parliament but also gets bad election results.

PR potentially creates a fairer system, it does not create larger turnouts.

Sunday voting creates both a fairer system (more equal time) and larger turnouts.

I am in favour of PR but I think the ground zero is Sunday and build PR on that day.
PR is more complex and needs more time and a thoughful electorate to achieve a good PR outcome

If you look closely at point 17 I said this:

17. With a more thoughtful electorate (due to time) we might see more tactical voting and coalitions (common in Sunday voting nations). Or more likely not to jump to incorrect conclusions about centre left parties. The voter can vote for the specific small party that suits them best knowing it still counts.🤔 As psychology today states: Kahneman (2011) complex and effortful thinking (system 2) requires attention, motivation, and self-control. All of those resources are more limited and depleted when we are already busy, stressed, and tired......Baumister, Tice, and Vohs (2018) noted the negative effects of such depletion on the decision-making of children in academic settings, hospital staff, judges, and VOTERS. Therefore, when possible, think through important decisions when you are well rested, clear-headed, and have the energy and motivation to dedicate to the task. Your mother telling you to “sleep on it and decide in the morning” was probably good advice.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/b...9Afe0sO9kAPipI

As you see, I dont explicitly say PR but I do see it (or similar) as a logical outcome of a more thoughtful SUNDAY electorate.
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lia_r18
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#26
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#26
And what about all those students who work weekends and still wouldn't be able to vote? There would never be an ideal day for voting as there will always be something occuring.

also in my area a lot of churches turn into polling stations - so do you really want to disrupt people being able to practice their religion for the sake of a vote that most young people couldn't care about anyway?

I had the chance to vote in the last 2 votes, but didn't in either becuase there wasn't enough information out there from every party so I wouldn't have been able to make an informed choice. (I was also working and missed the postal vote deadline).

if young people really want to vote but can't because of circumstances then the postal vote is always an option... Sunday's simply would not work.
Last edited by lia_r18; 4 weeks ago
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ElectionDay
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#27
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#27
(Original post by lia_r18)
And what about all those students who work weekends and still wouldn't be able to vote? There would never be an ideal day for voting as there will always be something occuring.

also in my area a lot of churches turn into polling stations - so do you really want to disrupt people being able to practice their religion for the sake of a vote that most young people couldn't care about anyway?

I had the chance to vote in the last 2 votes, but didn't in either becuase there wasn't enough information out there from every party so I wouldn't have been able to make an informed choice. (I was also working and missed the postal vote deadline).

if young people really want to vote but can't because of circumstances then the postal vote is always an option... Sunday's simply would not work.
Good tip with discussing - always have a mistrust of arguments that use the word "simply".

Some reasons why your "simply" is wrong:
a) If you read the thread you will note that Sunday provably does work as the nations closest two us in size, wealth and location are all Sunday voting and all have higher turnouts.
b) There are far more government owned buildings empty on a Sunday than any other day. In fact that is one of the main reasons for choosing Sunday. Currently 1/6th of schools have to close so they can be used as polling booths for everything from police commissioners who cant stop knife crime to Brexit referendums. If the vote was on Sunday, like most normal countries, you could use nearly all infant & primary school buildings as polling stations - there would be no need to pay for church buildings.
c) Worker students work less hours on Sunday (shops in most areas close early) - Thursdays are worse for worker students: college lectures, some home study & working evenings.
d) France BANS postal votes and gets 77% turnouts for boring Macron (2017). We struggled to get 68% for interesting Brexit General Election with Corbynistas etc. In fact out system broke in 2001 general election and has never really recovered.

e) Your argument by ignoring Sunday is saying we're WORSE people then French, Germans, Italians and Spanish. That clearly is a non argument. For you to have a VALID argument you have to come up with a reason why French, Germans, Italians and Spanish have higher election turnouts (right down to regional and local elections) then we do that does not include the fact that they all have SUNDAY VOTING .
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lia_r18
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#28
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#28
(Original post by ElectionDay)
Good tip with discussing - always have a mistrust of arguments that use the word "simply".

Some reasons why your "simply" is wrong:
a) If you read the thread you will note that Sunday provably does work as the nations closest two us in size, wealth and location are all Sunday voting and all have higher turnouts.
b) There are far more government owned buildings empty on a Sunday than any other day. In fact that is one of the main reasons for choosing Sunday. Currently 1/6th of schools have to close so they can be used as polling booths for everything from police commissioners who cant stop knife crime to Brexit referendums. If the vote was on Sunday, like most normal countries, you could use nearly all infant & primary school buildings as polling stations - there would be no need to pay for church buildings.
c) Worker students work less hours on Sunday (shops in most areas close early) - Thursdays are worse for worker students: college lectures, some home study & working evenings.
d) France BANS postal votes and gets 77% turnouts for boring Macron (2017). We struggled to get 68% for interesting Brexit General Election with Corbynistas etc. In fact out system broke in 2001 general election and has never really recovered.

e) Your argument by ignoring Sunday is saying we're WORSE people then French, Germans, Italians and Spanish. That clearly is a non argument. For you to have a VALID argument you have to come up with a reason why French, Germans, Italians and Spanish have higher election turnouts (right down to regional and local elections) then we do that does not include the fact that they all have SUNDAY VOTING .
So... I just gave perfectly valid reasons and you have decided to discredit about all of them because I used the word simply?

I work 9 hours on a Sunday - I'm pretty sure that contradicts your statement.

Realistically how many people do you think would give up a Sunday to go and work in a polling station? I'm also pretty sure that after a week of working there are not many people will want to go out and vote on a Sunday. Traditionally Sunday is a day of rest - and a day to spend with your family. Many families still follow this tradition. It is much more convenient to pop to the polling station as you are driving to/from work.

MAYBE in France & other European countries it works for them becuase they have better knowledge around what they're voting for. Not once in school or college or anywhere else for that matter have I been told all the facts as to what I'm voting for... therefore I don't. And just to prove a point, neither of my parents knew what the last vote we had was about either. There is not enough information out there to say what we are actually voting for. There was a lack of news coverage about the vote because all the news seem to be able to talk about at the moment is how Brexit will be the end out the world...

There is nothing wrong with the postal vote - it allows many people the chance to vote who may not other be able to... what about all those who are bed-bound or terminally ill (they fill it out and get a family member/friend to pop it in the post) or those who are away during the vote (they're able to do it before they leave as they're given their postal cards earlier).

Sunday voting will not work.
Last edited by lia_r18; 4 weeks ago
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ElectionDay
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#29
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#29
FINAL SAY MARCH tomorrow!
Original Brexit referendum had low turnout of 72%. Voters aged over 70 had an 84% turnout. If Confirmatory Referendum turnout gets up to 84% the extra voters will be mainly young remainers. In the 2007 SUNDAY French election the turnout was 84%.There is a mountain of statistics to back up Sunday voting for Remain. Typical example 50% of students do NOT postal vote but are registered to vote at their parents house (for Experian Credit score).

50% of students go home often and when they do go home, 99% of the time, its at the weekend: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...d.php?t=678124 Thursday is a non runner.

Sign to let REMAIN win big in the Confirmatory Referendum: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/263133
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