Student-95
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#181
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#181
(Original post by DSilva)
Deary me. If you hated black people, and punched one because of their race, but didn't specifically say it was because of their race, it would be fine?

This whole ' well yeah he may have told a bunch of ethnic minorities to 'go back to where they came from' but it's fine because he didn't explicitly say it was because they were ethnic minorities' is rather tiring, when the reason he said it is obvious.

Debating with Trump supporters is an impossible task. They will never accept he has done or said anything wrong.
1. We are not debating whether or not the comment is fine, we're debating whether or not it's racist. It is not racist but that doesn't mean the comment is fine.

2. Except it's not obvious at all. You have no evidence for what you claim. You're just assuming his intent was racist and getting frustrated when I point out the fact that he didn't actually say anything racist.

You are free to belive that Trump is racist if you want. Same as how I am free to belive that you are a racist. But it would be false for me to say your comment is racist, regardless of how I may choose to assume your intent, because it's not. Now that doesn't mean you're not a racist, simply that this particular comment didn't contain any racism.
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DSilva
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#182
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#182
(Original post by Student-95)
1. We are not debating whether or not the comment is fine, we're debating whether or not it's racist. It is not racist but that doesn't mean the comment is fine.

2. Except it's not obvious at all. You have no evidence for what you claim. You're just assuming his intent was racist and getting frustrated when I point out the fact that he didn't actually say anything racist.

You are free to belive that Trump is racist if you want. Same as how I am free to belive that you are a racist. But it would be false for me to say your comment is racist, regardless of how I may choose to assume your intent, because it's not. Now that doesn't mean you're not a racist, simply that this particular comment didn't contain any racism.
Telling ethnic minorities to 'to back to where they came from' obvisouly is racist... Its one of the oldest and most common racist tropes. Not least because it implies that due to their heritage, they are not from America... Yet they were born in America.

He obviously wouldn't have told three white congressmen to 'go back to where they came from'.
Last edited by DSilva; 1 month ago
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Student-95
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#183
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#183
(Original post by DSilva)
Telling ethnic minorities to 'to back to where they came from' obvisouly is racist... Its one of the oldest and most common racist tropes. Not least because it implies that due to their heritage, they are not from America... Yet they were born in America.

He obviously wouldn't have told three white congressmen to 'go back to where they came from'.
No, you're choosing to assume he had racist intent. There is absolutely nothing inherently racist about the comment.
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DSilva
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#184
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#184
(Original post by Student-95)
No, you're choosing to assume he had racist intent. There is absolutely nothing inherently racist about the comment.
There's nothing racist about telling American born ethnic minorities that they should 'go back to where they originally came from'? Okay...
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Student-95
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#185
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#185
(Original post by DSilva)
There's nothing racist about telling American born ethnic minorities that they should 'go back to where they originally came from'? Okay...
As I said before, the fact they happen to be minorities doesn't make any negative comments about them racist.
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DSilva
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#186
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#186
(Original post by Student-95)
As I said before, the fact they happen to be minorities doesn't make any negative comments about them racist.
If he'd have simply criticised them, or made general negative comments then it may not have been racist. But he didn't do that, he told them to 'go back to where they originally came from'.

Which obviously makes the comments racist.

If you were to say you don't like a person, who happened to be an ethnic minority, it wouldn't be racist. If you were to tell them to 'go back to where you originally came from', it very clearly would be.
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Student-95
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#187
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#187
(Original post by DSilva)
If he'd have simply criticised them, or made general negative comments then it may not have been racist. But he didn't do that, he told them to 'go back to where they originally came from'.

Which obviously makes the comments racist.

If you were to say you don't like a person, who happened to be an ethnic minority, it wouldn't be racist. If you were to tell them to 'go back to where you originally came from', it very clearly would be.
No, that's not how racism works. You say it's 'obviously' racist after quoting something that has nothing to do with race...

Quote the bit where he tells them to leave BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE.
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DSilva
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#188
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#188
(Original post by Student-95)
No, that's not how racism works. You say it's 'obviously' racist after quoting something that has nothing to do with race...

Quote the bit where he tells them to leave BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE.
Of course it's to do with race, because he wouldn't have said that to white congressmen because it would have made no sense at all...
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Student-95
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#189
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#189
(Original post by DSilva)
Of course it's to do with race, because he wouldn't have said that to white congressmen because it would have made no sense at all...
It would make perfect sense if he thought they were from a country he believes is worse than America.
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DSilva
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#190
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#190
(Original post by Student-95)
It would make perfect sense if he thought they were from a country he believes is worse than America.
Telling people who were born in America to 'go back to where they originally came from', is obviously racist as the only possible inference is that he is saying they aren't 'originally from America'. Yet they are as American as Trump or anyone else.

As is saying that ethnic minorities are not allowed to criticise America unless they have fixed problems in countries their families came from. Otherwise you are saying it's fine for white people to criticise America but not ethnic minorities, which is treating people of certain ethnicity in a discriminatory manner.

It's absurd that politics today is so polarised that people are genuinely denying that it's racist to tell ethnic minority American citizens to 'go back to where they originally came from'.
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Student-95
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#191
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#191
(Original post by DSilva)
Telling people who were born in America to 'go back to where they originally came from', is obviously racist as the only possible inference is that he is saying they aren't 'originally from America'. Yet they are as American as Trump or anyone else.

As is saying that ethnic minorities are not allowed to criticise America unless they have fixed problems in countries their families came from. Otherwise you are saying it's fine for white people to criticise America but not ethnic minorities, which is treating people of certain ethnicity in a discriminatory manner.

It's absurd that politics today is so polarised that people are genuinely denying that it's racist to tell ethnic minority American citizens to 'go back to where they originally came from'.
1. Not racist, just misinformed.

2. Not racist, just a stupid argument.

3. Again, just because the subject is a minority that doesn't make it racist. It would be racist if he told them to leave BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. But he didn't, he just said to leave... then come back later.
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Ascend
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#192
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#192
(Original post by Student-95)
1. Not racist, just misinformed.

2. Not racist, just a stupid argument.
Once again trivialising that very stupidity which is the basis of racism and leads to such a racist statement. The two go hand-in-hand.

They are from America. They are American. They have every right as Americans, let alone as congresswomen, to criticise America and how government is run.

Trump targeted these Americans and told them to go back to countries they are not from. The only possible explanation for why he would bring up their ancestry can only be due to their ethnicity. They have otherwise never claimed allegiance to such countries. And there lies the ignorant racism.
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DSilva
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#193
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#193
(Original post by Student-95)
1. Not racist, just misinformed.

2. Not racist, just a stupid argument.

3. Again, just because the subject is a minority that doesn't make it racist. It would be racist if he told them to leave BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. But he didn't, he just said to leave... then come back later.
It wasn't just misinformed. Would he ever doubt that a white American was 'originally from' America?

It is racist. I think it's fair to say that treating people from a certain ethnicity less favourably than others because of that ethnicity is pretty much the dictionary definition of racism.

He is saying that people from ethnic minorities have to 'go back' to the countries of their families heritage and fix the problems there, before being allowed to criticise the American govt. Yet Trump doesn't think that white American people have to go back to other countries and fix the problems there before being allowed to criticise the American govt. That's treating ethnic minorities less favourably.
Last edited by DSilva; 1 month ago
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Student-95
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#194
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#194
(Original post by DSilva)
It wasn't just misinformed. Would he ever doubt that a white American was 'originally from' America?

It is racist. I think it's fair to say that treating people from a certain ethnicity less favourably than others because of that ethnicity is pretty much the dictionary definition of racism.

He is saying that people from ethnic minorities have to 'go back' to the countries of their families heritage and fix the problems there, before being allowed to criticise the American govt. Yet Trump doesn't think that white American people have to go back to other countries and fix the problems there before being allowed to criticise the American govt. That's treating ethnic minorities less favourably.
1. Yes
2. Again, if it was because of their race it would be racist but in all your posts you've still failed to quote where he said that. If he had actually said it I'm sure you would have included it in your first response but alas, he didn't say it.
3. No, that's your spin on what was actually said.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Student-95)
Thank you. He didn't say it.
Stop being disingenuous. He didn't explicitly say It but it's obvious that racism was the intent behind it, and this denialism is frankly pathetic
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Student-95
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#196
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#196
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Stop being disingenuous. He didn't explicitly say It but it's obvious that racism was the intent behind it, and this denialism is frankly pathetic
Again, you admit he didn't say it. Your entire argument is based on you assuming his intent.
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#197
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#197
(Original post by Student-95)
Again, you admit he didn't say it. Your entire argument is based on you assuming his intent.
Because the intent is obvious to everyone. I know you can see it as well, you're just lying and going on almost plausible deniability because either you agree with his white nationalist rhetoric, or you have no integrity and consider anything fair game so long as it "triggers the libs".
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Student-95
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#198
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#198
(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Because the intent is obvious to everyone. I know you can see it as well, you're just lying and going on almost plausible deniability because either you agree with his white nationalist rhetoric, or you have no integrity and consider anything fair game so long as it "triggers the libs".
Evidently it's not. I do belive his intent is obvious but it has nothing to do with race.

The simple fact that he told them to come back doesn't work with your theory. They will still be the same race after they fix the country so if that is the reason for telling them to leave, why would he want them to come back?
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Underscore__
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#199
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#199
(Original post by DSilva)
Even if we were to give him the benefit of the doubt, and accept that he 'meant' that their family heritage was not American (even though that's not what he said), his comments in my view were still racist.

Saying that ethnic minorities are required to 'fix the problems' in countries their families came from, before being allowed to criticise the American government, is onvisouly racist and bigoted.

If you were to tell a Jewish person in the UK that they must fix the problems in Israel before being allowed to criticise the UK govt, it would obviously be anti semitic.

But Trump has form for denying the status or legitimacy of ethnic minorities as Americans, just as when, without a shred of evidence, he was claiming that Obama wasn't born in the USA.
This feels like banging my head against a wall. For the millionth time, you do not know that he said it because they are ethnic minorities.
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Ascend
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#200
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#200
(Original post by Student-95)
They will still be the same race after they fix the country so if that is the reason for telling them to leave, why would he want them to come back?
Now you're taking on the stupidity you claimed Trump engaged in.

What country? :laugh:

I don't know how many times this needs to be pointed out: they are citizens and in the government of the United States. That's their only country.
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