Ascend
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#261
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#261
^ I should add that I don't believe citizenship is some universal objective standard for belonging but that it's the only objective standard within a Westphalian system of sovereign states (which is what is currently in place worldwide).
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Underscore__
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#262
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(Original post by Ascend)
No, that's not my explanation. We started off by you not even acknowledging that Trump referred to their ethnicity. You now seem to acknowledge this fact and brought up the "well they are proud of their ethnicity" defence. I have responded to this latest line of argument in the previous post but you've ignored it.
I didn't respond to it because the ridiculous language you're using, combined with the fact that this very circular, makes this discussion feel pointless. He didn't attack anyone's heritage and I also don't recall acknowledging that he's brought up anyone's ethnicity. As I said, the comment was stupid but just because it was directed at four people who aren't white that doesn't make it racist. You're yet to make any compelling argument to suggest his comment was motivated by race.

(Original post by Ascend)
Boris Johnson was a dual citizen of both the UK and America. So, yes, he was in fact American. Citizenship is the only objective standard for belonging to a territorial state. All others are not only highly subjective but are equally as "silly" in the identitarian (tribal) politics of who is or isn't a 'proper' member of certain countries/societies/communities/groups.
Citizenship is not a good determinant of a person's nationality because of the example I gave in my last post. Besides, this is off topic. This line arose because I said that Ilhan Omar is distinct from he other three, she is 'originally from' elsewhere.
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MathsMania
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#263
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#263
people have come to other countries for safety, for peace of mind, for education. FOR OPPORTUNITIES THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANYWAY, and that everyone deserves to have.
While they may be "originally from somewhere else" technically, it isn't right to tell people to "go back" to the horrors they fled. If my Dad hadn't left Somalia himself, I wouldn't even be alive today.
Trump, despite saying "I am not a racist. I'm the least racist person you have ever interviewed".
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The language he uses "infested" (typically describing rats) and referring to African countries as "s**t holes" suggests other wise.
Let's not also forget this:

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z-hog
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#264
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(Original post by Ascend)
The very post you quoted and completely dodged: Trump's glaring lie that Cummings' district is the worst in the country.
You've made to go back a page or two to see what this unfinished business is all about, i can't find anything about Baltimore being best or worst in the country. Please re-post, I'm not going to go forensic after all this time.
Last edited by z-hog; 1 month ago
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Ascend
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(Original post by Underscore__)
I didn't respond to it because the ridiculous language you're using,
Try to push through it and respond, if you may.

He didn't attack anyone's heritage and I also don't recall acknowledging that he's brought up anyone's ethnicity.
He brought up and attacked what he perceives as their countries of origin - this is their heritage and ethnicity.

As I said, the comment was stupid but just because it was directed at four people who aren't white that doesn't make it racist.
You have a habit of misrepresenting my arguments. This is not what I am arguing. Once again if you could find the strength to push through the "ridiculous language" and address my points that would be great. Or if you'd like I can change the language if you can show me why it's ridiculous.
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Ascend
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#266
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(Original post by z-hog)
You've made to go back a page or two to see what this unfinished business is all about, i can't find anything about Baltimore being best or worst in the country. Please re-post, I'm not going to go forensic after all this time.
No worries, here you go:

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...&postcount=247

(Original post by Ascend)
Unsurprisingly, something yet again very stupid.


Correction: he targeted Elijah Cummings' district as "the Worst in the USA".

It is in fact a relatively affluent and well-educated one despite being in the "****hole" that is Baltimore.

'Using data from the “Biggest US Cities” website, Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com took to Twitter to point out that Cummings’s district has “above-average college education rates and home prices, along with a pretty good mix of urban and suburban areas (even some rural), and well-off, working-class and middle-class areas.”

Silver also pointed out the district is the second-wealthiest majority-black district in the country, with a $58,000 median household income, trailing Maryland’s 4th Congressional District, which includes parts of the Prince George’s and Anne Arundel counties. Cummings’ district is also the second-most-well-educated majority-black district because 37% of the residents have a bachelor’s degree or higher, trailing Georgia’s 4th District, Silver added.'

https://www.baltimoresun.com/politic...zfa-story.html

So yet again a petty personal attack that goes facts.
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z-hog
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You're placing your faith on Nathan at fivethirty.com from ABC News, which may be wise or not, but it only shows how open ended these things are. I don't care whether it amounts to a lie by Trump or is another case of his pushing the boundaries for effect. You're still dwelling on it, I'm happy to call it a lie on his part just to put it to rest. Yeah, he lies a lot but may still be re-elected because his opponents are even worse.
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Ascend
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(Original post by z-hog)
I don't care whether it amounts to a lie by Trump or is another case of his pushing the boundaries for effect. You're still dwelling on it, I'm happy to call it a lie on his part just to put it to rest. Yeah, he lies a lot but may still be re-elected because his opponents are even worse.
Now we're normalising lies and untruth? That is a level of cultish devotion that not even the Muslim apologists I most regularly debate with on here stoop to.

But it's fine because his opponents are even worse? Find me just one of your Dear Leader's opponents who have made nearly as many false claims as He has.
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z-hog
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(Original post by Ascend)
But it's fine because his opponents are even worse? Find me just one of your Dear Leader's opponents who have made nearly as many false claims as He has.
Trump has also claimed Baltimore has a higher murder rate than Guatemala, Honduras or El Salvador. Fact or fib?

The Mayor is on her way out too, an alleged corruption story that has had her home and office raided by the FBI. Dispute away.

False claims by the Trumpopobes? That he's racist, for instance. No evidence at all, it's only a Trumpophbic delusion by racists themselves.
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Ascend
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(Original post by z-hog)
Trump has also claimed Baltimore has a higher murder rate than Guatemala, Honduras or El Salvador. Fact or fib?

The Mayor is on her way out too, an alleged corruption story that has had her home and office raided by the FBI. Dispute away.

False claims by the Trumpopobes? That he's racist, for instance. No evidence at all, it's only a Trumpophbic delusion by racists themselves.
You're even adopting the whataboutery of religious apologists. Is the standard so low that your defence of His lies is to counteract it with those rare moments that he may not be technically lying? Funnier still, statisticians would rightly laugh off Trump's (swt) comparison of a densely urban city to a whole country.

Evidence has been amply provided, including in this thread. Your inability to counter the arguments is your problem.
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Underscore__
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#271
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(Original post by Ascend)
Try to push through it and respond, if you may.

You have a habit of misrepresenting my arguments. This is not what I am arguing. Once again if you could find the strength to push through the "ridiculous language" and address my points that would be great. Or if you'd like I can change the language if you can show me why it's ridiculous.
I feel like this has really been dragged into the weeds, which points specifically would you like me to respond to?

(Original post by Ascend)
He brought up and attacked what he perceives as their countries of origin - this is their heritage and ethnicity.
But he didn't "attack" those countries on the basis of the race of the people who are from those countries. He "attacked" the governments of those countries.

The real crux of this point is whether or not you believe it is racist to claim that someone is 'originally from' the country of their ancestral heritage.
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