When debating remainers Watch

Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#41
Report 4 weeks ago
#41
(Original post by ColinDent)
I believe that particular post to be tongue in cheek.
Well it was early, that's my get out clause
0
reply
Burridge
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#42
Report 4 weeks ago
#42
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Here we go reference my post #7

You really need too look up the definition of bigoted/bigot and then you may wish to veiw yourself.
He's clearly trolling. Ignore him. Don't take everything so seriously (with all due respect)

EDIT: just seen the above post, never mind!
0
reply
nulli tertius
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#43
Report 4 weeks ago
#43
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yes this is correct, there are idiots on both sides of the debate I agree with you. Unfortunately remain has more of these people in positions of power, as you just point out - 114 of them voted against triggering artical 50 in the first place! I'm not so sure the idiots of the Leave campaign have any parliamentary reputation, thankfully the Tommy Robinson EDL types have no parliamentary representative.


Look at the facts Cheques was scrapped by Theresa May, it never went to a meaningful vote! TM is a remainer parliamentarian so I'm not having that, The Canada style deal was stopped by Theresa May again a remainer, now the Canada style deal was supported by the ERG so that's fuzzy logic you are using once more! While you are correct about mays deal mk 1 and 2. The exit agreement, previously backed by labour's remain heavy parliamentarians was rejected again by remainers! As I said remainer frustrated the process.

Brexiteers frustrating the process? well if they had not been swept aside I believe it would of all been done now, so no I don't think so but that's open to debate.
Article 50 should not have been triggered. May should never have accepted the EU's premise that "we will only talk about the things you want to talk about, when we have sorted out the things we want to talk about".

May's line should have been:- "No, we won't leave the room whilst Brexit is being discussed". "No, we won't talk about next year's budget until we know when we are leaving". "Yes, we are happy to agree a new treaty that provides for our departure".
0
reply
Alt Tankie
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#44
Report Thread starter 4 weeks ago
#44
(Original post by Burridge)
Parliament promised a referendum - which Leave won - and has attempted to unite behind a plan forward. The problem, though, is that there are so many visions of Brexit and interpretations of the referendum result that it's incredibly difficult to find consensus across the House. Not to mention, Parliament has a duty to adequately represent the 48% that voted to Remain - striking a balance between the demands of the 52% and the views of the 48%.

Brexit is a class issue. But it can also be seen as an age issue (which I believe is the most pertinent of the demographics), an educational attainment issue, or a geographic issue (London, Scotland, & a handful of big cities voting Remain). It's shameful how some figures have attempted to twist the fears and concerns of the working-classes - it's our government that are to blame for the NHS crisis, lack of affordable housing, austerity etc.
1: Brexit means that we are able to control own laws (eg legally renationalise industries) , put limits on freedom of movement and negotiate our own trade deals.,. Which unless they turn around and make a new offer essentially means no deal. It also means stricter controls on immigration too. The people who say there are many different kinds of Brexit are all Remain voters. If the vote has been the other way you know as well as I do that the 48% of leave voters could get stuffed. This is the first time the establishment (with the exception of a few fringe venture capitalists) haven’t got their way and they simply can’t stand it.

2: how is age more important than class? Everybody ages, very few people change class and never completely. The geographic issue is also linked in with the class issue eg wales and the north are poorer.

Sure but this has always been the case. Sure put governments are to blame and since thatcher have been entirely pro EU..
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#45
Report 4 weeks ago
#45
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Napp

You’re both wrong I’m afraid.,I’m not saying that generally speaking remainers think all kea e voters are far right- what I am saying is generally remain voters think brexit is a victory for the far right- and most leave voters are useful idiots.
All I was highlighting is that you wasn't making a very bold claim on behalf of 16 million odd people who voted Remain. You were talking about a fraction of that demographic, the Liberal left.

I'm pretty sure Fans of European movement like John major along with his mentor Margaret Thatcher cannot be described as Liberal lefties.

If you are clubbing all the 16.1 million people together then Napp is correct after all but to think over 99% of remainers have the same thought process is absolutely ridiculous statement to make and Napp is correct to point this out, in which case.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#46
Report 4 weeks ago
#46
(Original post by Burridge)
He's clearly trolling. Ignore him. Don't take everything so seriously (with all due respect)

EDIT: just seen the above post, never mind!
Yes not having my finest hour on this topic  everyone makes mistakes.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#47
Report 4 weeks ago
#47
(Original post by Burridge)
I imagine most of the 114 disagreed with the timing of enacting Article 50. It seems pretty well established with hindsight that A50 was triggered far too early, with no plan or framework for exiting the EU being established. Within this 114 there will be a few dozen hardcore remainers - hardly the pro-remain takeover that people like to infer. I'd say less than 10% of MPs are hellbent on blindly remaining in the EU under any and every circumstance; the number of hellbent militant Brexiteers probably far outweighs this. And one of them is about to become our Prime Minister.

The ERG is undoubtedly the most powerful party-within-a-party in Parliament. Far exceeding the influence of Momentum, this hard-core, backward looking, & highly secretive faction has its own whipping operation and is determined to achieve an any-cost Brexit. In February last year, 62 ERG members signed a letter (including now Chairman JRM) listing their demands - which included a WTO implementation period. Jacob Rees-Mogg has been the front-man of a media campaign over recent months that has sought to downplay the risks of the no-deal Brexit, instead hyping up the possibility of trading under WTO terms.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...chuck-chequers
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/0...etter-in-full/

The Canada-EU trade deal took 7 years to agree and though it may have led to tariff-free trade on most goods, there's is next to no regulatory aligned between the two. The service sector - which represents upwards of 80% of the British economy - would be heavily impacted in a Canada style deal; resulting in an economy that would be almost 7% smaller in 15 years than remaining (which is only 2% short of a no-deal Brexit), as per the FT.

https://www.ft.com/content/4849bf68-...4-d150b3105d21

Like I said, this is a representative democracy where we elect officials to make informed decisions on our behalf. The 2016 referendum demonstrated a slim majority supported leaving the EU (though now the numbers look to have reversed); but offered no vision about the style or type of Brexit that people wanted - that is where Parliament comes in. The public offered the direction that they wanted the country to head - and Parliament has the responsibility of ironing out the detail. Theres so much infighting, not just between leavers and reaminers, but also remainers & remainers and leavers & leavers. It's just not the simple case of 'remainers doing their best to overturn the will of the people' that we see & hear so often in the media (of which the Leave camp has considerable support & influence), on social media, or even on this forum. The issue is far too divisive and has split the entire country, not just Parliament.

The reality is that though most MPs voted remain (circa 80% I think), most now wish to see Brexit delivered - hence the A50 vote. But they wish to see a vision of Brexit that is based upon consensus and is in the interests of their constituents and the wider-country.
I'm not so sure about the Canada deal harming anything, I don't see how it can however I do not have a subscription to FT so I cannot see you're link..

There is literally no point in leaving the European Union to become a zombie member. As remainers correctly point out deal wise we go from the most privileged member to a non member with no vote/influence but we still are shackled to the failings of the EU, crazy idea. The Canada deal which may squashed was the ideal Brexit it gave us our freedoms to self regulatate, choose which regulations to keep and which to improved or discard based on our own needs answerable to the British electoral system

10% of Parliament hell bent in remaining is debateable at best. If we are talking about what should of been done. Before we A50 was triggered we should have had indicative votes as to what to do, personally I don't understand why someone would vote for A50 when they clearly don't understand it!

Brexit has become a colt/belief from both sides, some remainers think the sun comes from Brussels and some leavers want to leave and have became equally deluded thinking the empire will magically return.. We will not agree because ultimately the difference between leavers and remainers is a leavers see opportunities and remainers see damage limitation.

However just strike a hand of agreement the great man in your picture, undoubtedly in my eyes the greatest political figure to of never became PM is my polical hero, I'm guessing yours also he would certainly see opportunities but I would also think he would be pround that we both are standing up for what we both believe in.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#48
Report 4 weeks ago
#48
(Original post by Burridge)

Brexit is a class issue. But it can also be seen as an age issue (which I believe is the most pertinent of the demographics), an educational attainment issue, or a geographic issue (London, Scotland, & a handful of big cities voting Remain). It's shameful how some figures have attempted to twist the fears and concerns of the working-classes - it's our government that are to blame for the NHS crisis, lack of affordable housing, austerity etc.
You need to speak to many northern working class people. The EEC was Margaret Thatchers baby that Labour and the trade unions were dead against joining. To many northern people the status quo has been very bad for them, voting for any change is appealing to them because quite literally they have seen their communities decimated since joining the EU
0
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#49
Report 4 weeks ago
#49
(Original post by ByEeek)
I understand the supermarket business very well thank you. My bother is a seniour manager for one. And what has happened in the last 3 years is that the margin on groveries of around 5% has fallen to less than 1%. The only thing left is to put up prices. However competition is so fierce, no supermarket is going to admit to putting up prices. But prices are going up regardless and the main driver is a devalued pound. Prices and fuel are heading one way only and in a massive way come no deal.

But its ok. Because we can make our own decisions just like we can now.
I'll take that as a no then.
0
reply
ByEeek
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#50
Report 4 weeks ago
#50
(Original post by ColinDent)
I'll take that as a no then.
Of course i did. But choose to ignore it just like you ignored my question. I guess we are similar in some things!
0
reply
Trotsky's Iceaxe
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#51
Report 4 weeks ago
#51
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
You need to speak to many northern working class people. The EEC was Margaret Thatchers baby that Labour and the trade unions were dead against joining. To many northern people the status quo has been very bad for them, voting for any change is appealing to them because quite literally they have seen their communities decimated since joining the EU
I’m northern and from a working class area. The industrial collapse in my region started before we joined the EEC, with the vast majority of the mine closures occurring in the 60s.

Right wing rags like The Sun and The Daily Mail drip fed the idea that the EU is to blame for our problems, sadly too may people mindlessly bought into their garbage.

One of the reasons why I’m such an adamant remainder is I don’t want to see the people of the area I grew up in (highest unemployment rate and lowest wages in England) suffer further economic hardship caused by reckless Brexit fanatics like yourself.
Last edited by Trotsky's Iceaxe; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#52
Report 4 weeks ago
#52
(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
I’m northern and from a working class area. The industrial collapse in my region started before we joined the EEC, with the vast majority of the mine closures occurring in the 60s.

Right wing rags like The Sun and The Daily Mail drip fed the idea that the EU is to blame for our problems, sadly too may people mindlessly bought into their garbage.

One of the reasons why I’m such an adamant remainder is I don’t want to see the people of the area I grew up in (highest unemployment rate and lowest wages in England) suffer further economic hardship caused by reckless Brexit fanatics like yourself.
I was going to reply properly and orderly but then you returned to your usual bigoted stance. You don't know what I want or maybe you do, please explain why I am a reckless Brexit fanatic?
0
reply
BeetRoots
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#53
Report 4 weeks ago
#53
Well, the Brexiteers have now been given enough rope, let's see how long it takes them to hang the UK.
Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
0
reply
ColinDent
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#54
Report 4 weeks ago
#54
(Original post by ByEeek)
Of course i did. But choose to ignore it just like you ignored my question. I guess we are similar in some things!
I failed to see your breakdown of which items are being raised directly, and solely, because of brexit, please could you post again.
0
reply
ByEeek
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#55
Report 4 weeks ago
#55
(Original post by ColinDent)
I failed to see your breakdown of which items are being raised directly, and solely, because of brexit, please could you post again.
Pound has dropped by 15% in 3 years and shock horror, some prices have gone up. Is it really that hard?

You will be telling me black is white next.
Last edited by ByEeek; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#56
Report 4 weeks ago
#56
(Original post by ByEeek)
Pound has dropped by 15% in 3 years and shock horror, some prices have gone up. Is it really that hard?

You will be telling me black is white next.
Why has it took 3 years to filter through then?
0
reply
Vinny C
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#57
Report 4 weeks ago
#57
(Original post by ColinDent)
Are you Jordan Henderson?

https://youtu.be/y7w1ajC5taM
Might be... is a better name than Blo Jo...
0
reply
Vinny C
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#58
Report 4 weeks ago
#58
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Why has it took 3 years to filter through then?
Same reason as gulf war recession didn't hit until 2008. There is much detritus for it to penetrate but penetrate it finally does. Btw... Sunderland, Scunthorpe, Kerry Foods... just first casualties. Expect more!
0
reply
Vinny C
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#59
Report 4 weeks ago
#59
(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
I’m northern and from a working class area. The industrial collapse in my region started before we joined the EEC, with the vast majority of the mine closures occurring in the 60s.

Right wing rags like The Sun and The Daily Mail drip fed the idea that the EU is to blame for our problems, sadly too may people mindlessly bought into their garbage.

One of the reasons why I’m such an adamant remainder is I don’t want to see the people of the area I grew up in (highest unemployment rate and lowest wages in England) suffer further economic hardship caused by reckless Brexit fanatics like yourself.

Mine closures... lol. Wilson invested a fortune into the mines and guess what? Thanks to all the automation, we can now produce the same output with half the staff. Didn't see that one coming, did you Harold? Idea was to double output by exporting to Europe but then... Scargill! Want us to produce twice as much? Double the wages! No Arthur... that's not how it works. Europe wouldn't touch us with a bargepole so mined its own. QED, meltdown of the mining industry!
Last edited by Vinny C; 4 weeks ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#60
Report 4 weeks ago
#60
(Original post by Vinny C)
Same reason as gulf war recession didn't hit until 2008. There is much detritus for it to penetrate but penetrate it finally does. Btw... Sunderland, Scunthorpe, Kerry Foods... just first casualties. Expect more!
But we have been here before and as it was pointed out you refused to answer lord knows how many times. It was your hypothesis that from 1973-2015, companies that made any redundancy or closures were simply experiencing a hard market and the EU was in noway to blame. But anything negative from 2016 onwards are experiencing the negative impact of Brexit and would have survived just fine if we had voted to remain? It's a theory for the birds Vinny, totally absent from any consistent logic.

Now explain to me how supermarkets with such a slim profit margin in a highly competitive market, can for years continue to buy and sell products at a price with the pound losing its value but 3 years on, they can't afford to? That's nothing to do with stock holding, I know that that's my job, warehouse and logics in the food industry.

So how can you prove, when Brexit and taffifs have not yet happened, how do you prove everything on negative on Brexit while any positive news has nothing to do with Brexit? In particular Because being in the EU didn't save those industries and business at any point since we joined.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts

All the exam results help you need

1,852

people online now

225,530

students helped last year
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling about GCSE Results Day?

Hopeful (214)
12.58%
Excited (156)
9.17%
Worried (305)
17.93%
Terrified (379)
22.28%
Meh (164)
9.64%
Confused (37)
2.18%
Putting on a brave face (233)
13.7%
Impatient (213)
12.52%

Watched Threads

View All