When debating remainers Watch

Vinny C
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
But we have been here before and as it was pointed out you refused to answer lord knows how many times. It was your hypothesis that from 1973-2015, companies that made any redundancy or closures were simply experiencing a hard market and the EU was in noway to blame. But anything negative from 2016 onwards are experiencing the negative impact of Brexit and would have survived just fine if we had voted to remain? It's a theory for the birds Vinny, totally absent from any consistent logic.

Now explain to me how supermarkets with such a slim profit margin in a highly competitive market, can for years continue to buy and sell products at a price with the pound losing its value but 3 years on, they can't afford to? That's nothing to do with stock holding, I know that that's my job, warehouse and logics in the food industry.

So how can you prove, when Brexit and taffifs have not yet happened, how do you prove everything on negative on Brexit while any positive news has nothing to do with Brexit? In particular Because being in the EU didn't save those industries and business at any point since we joined.
Oh dear... same old circular argument. We were a powerhouse in the 60's but hit a slump in the 70's thanks to worker's rights... etc. We were on our knees... I was there. Electricity provided 4 days per week if lucky, before your time. Saving grace was the EU... 1976, gave us access to markets previously inaccessible. We were and are good at what we do but even we need customers! Onwards and upwards! London doubled in size, became a financial powerhouse... These Brits know what they're doing... invest, invest! By 2000 we had money coming out of our ears but then... gulf war, a 3 month skirmish at worst... wrong! Led to the 2008 recession and we were spent up... again. Then Cameron... austerity, austerity, austerity... only way back. Then we decide to punch him on the nose and stick up two fingers to those who helped us out of the ****. I'm sure this is not how UKIP monthly tells it... but it is how my memory does, I was there. I trust it more than UKIP monthly.
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ColinDent
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#62
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#62
(Original post by ByEeek)
Pound has dropped by 15% in 3 years and shock horror, some prices have gone up. Is it really that hard?

You will be telling me black is white next.
You certainly don't appear to be able to grasp the concept of market forces.
I have already acknowledged that the price rises were partly down to the drop in the value of the pound but for you to continue to try to assert it is that alone is both wrong and naive, and to think that there are those among you that claim we leavers aren't informed enough.
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Burridge
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'm not so sure about the Canada deal harming anything, I don't see how it can however I do not have a subscription to FT so I cannot see you're link..

There is literally no point in leaving the European Union to become a zombie member. As remainers correctly point out deal wise we go from the most privileged member to a non member with no vote/influence but we still are shackled to the failings of the EU, crazy idea. The Canada deal which may squashed was the ideal Brexit it gave us our freedoms to self regulatate, choose which regulations to keep and which to improved or discard based on our own needs answerable to the British electoral system
Agree with much of this. We had an incredible deal from the EU - all of the privileges without many of the drawbacks; vetos in key areas, non-schengen, non-Euro, rebate which amounts to nearly 50% of our contributions etc. The link gave a brief overview of the Canada deal and outlined why it probably won't suit our relationship with the EU - based on the level of integration we currently have and the size of our service sector - hence it being the second-worst outcome in terms of GDP lost (second only to no deal).

(Original post by Burton Bridge)
10% of Parliament hell bent in remaining is debateable at best. If we are talking about what should of been done. Before we A50 was triggered we should have had indicative votes as to what to do, personally I don't understand why someone would vote for A50 when they clearly don't understand it!

Brexit has become a colt/belief from both sides, some remainers think the sun comes from Brussels and some leavers want to leave and have became equally deluded thinking the empire will magically return.. We will not agree because ultimately the difference between leavers and remainers is a leavers see opportunities and remainers see damage limitation.
Again, agree with much of this. Indicative votes from the beginning - this would have allowed the government to gauge the mood of Parliament - streamlining the entire process, changing the negotiating position of the government, increasing the likelihood of a deal being passed; ergo avoiding no deal. Maybe that's an over simplistic analysis, but indicative votes certainly would have been beneficial from the outset.

(Original post by Burton Bridge)

However just strike a hand of agreement the great man in your picture, undoubtedly in my eyes the greatest political figure to of never became PM is my polical hero, I'm guessing yours also he would certainly see opportunities but I would also think he would be pround that we both are standing up for what we both believe in.
Indeed! What a guy he was. A little before my time - but his ideas resonate now more than ever
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Burton Bridge
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Vinny C)
Oh dear... same old circular argument. We were a powerhouse in the 60's but hit a slump in the 70's thanks to worker's rights... etc. We were on our knees... I was there. Electricity provided 4 days per week if lucky, before your time. Saving grace was the EU... 1976, gave us access to markets previously inaccessible. We were and are good at what we do but even we need customers! Onwards and upwards! London doubled in size, became a financial powerhouse... These Brits know what they're doing... invest, invest! By 2000 we had money coming out of our ears but then... gulf war, a 3 month skirmish at worst... wrong! Led to the 2008 recession and we were spent up... again. Then Cameron... austerity, austerity, austerity... only way back. Then we decide to punch him on the nose and stick up two fingers to those who helped us out of the ****. I'm sure this is not how UKIP monthly tells it... but it is how my memory does, I was there. I trust it more than UKIP monthly.
Well this is so disingenuous and inaccurate I don't know where too start.

Vinny you either know this to completely untrue or your are a liar it's quite that simple. The last time we were here in between telling me we had 2 referendums on European membership in the 70's and getting the dates wrong and accusing me of having 'borris goggles' head in the 'UKIP monthly' and other completely unfounded and untrue accusations/insults. However I got a polite telling off from the mods for 'making fun of those with less knowledge who disagree with me'. This made me pause before replying to this, but the rep you got for the nonsense you have typed has just made me reply. Vinny it is simply not on lying to young people, to make them believe in a mistruth you wish to push. Unfortunately you know that if you say things in a certain manner young impressionable remainers will believe you, no matter if there is a hair of truth in you statement or not.

Firstly we along with Denmark, Ireland joined the EEC in 1973, after Charles de Gaulle's resignation in 1969. Under the Labour Prime Minister, Harold Wilson and thanks to Tony Benn, there was a UK referendum on continued membership of the EEC in 1975. Therfore I bring you're claim of 1976 into question because that had nothing to do with the EU In fact the EU did not even exist untill 1993!! If you were alive in 1976 which you claim was before my time :rolleyes:, I'll tell you that 1976 was the year of the hot summer, that's what people old enough will remember about 76, nothing to do with the EU/EEC!

Anyway the Conservatives actually took us into Europe, in 1973 the result was a recession in 1974!!!! As I said the Conservatives actually campaigned heavily for continuous membership of the common market, while socialists and trade unions campaigned to leave it and revert back to the more interventionist government style which would even prop up failing UK industries with subsidies. However the public rejected this and went for the unregulated free market capitalism approach of the Conservatives, Since the 1980s, industrial subsidies have been minimal, and not suggested as a serious policy.

Are you seriously disputing the banking crisis of 2008? The risky loans and such? Also I'm pretty sure that is was you who told us the EU gave us workers rights, now you tell us that workers rights caused the caused the slump in the 1970's and the EU (that did not even exist) rescued us from it! You ignore all my questions and points wrote a load of nonsense and convince someone to rep it.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 4 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Burridge)
Agree with much of this. We had an incredible deal from the EU - all of the privileges without many of the drawbacks; vetos in key areas, non-schengen, non-Euro, rebate which amounts to nearly 50% of our contributions etc. The link gave a brief overview of the Canada deal and outlined why it probably won't suit our relationship with the EU - based on the level of integration we currently have and the size of our service sector - hence it being the second-worst outcome in terms of GDP lost (second only to no deal).



Again, agree with much of this. Indicative votes from the beginning - this would have allowed the government to gauge the mood of Parliament - streamlining the entire process, changing the negotiating position of the government, increasing the likelihood of a deal being passed; ergo avoiding no deal. Maybe that's an over simplistic analysis, but indicative votes certainly would have been beneficial from the outset.



Indeed! What a guy he was. A little before my time - but his ideas resonate now more than ever
I cannot rep apprantly I've agreed with you too much that but rep!

The EU is not a bad idea if all member states have similar wealth and there was not a push for ever closer Union which many federalist in the EU push for.

Anyway we agree to a differ, however I will close in saying no one knows what will happen if we had a Canada deal because nobody knows what the government of the day would choose to do. Also economics is the only area where you can be wrong consistently and still be called an expert! Worth remembering that.
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Alexty28
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Here we go reference my post #7

You really need too look up the definition of bigoted/bigot and then you may wish to veiw yourself.
Whoosh. I was obviously being serious lol.
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Burton Bridge
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Alexty28)
Whoosh. I was obviously being serious lol.
Yes, I've already sent apologies above. It's not the first time I've been wrong and won't be the last
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Vinny C
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#68
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#68
(Original post by ColinDent)
You certainly don't appear to be able to grasp the concept of market forces.
I have already acknowledged that the price rises were partly down to the drop in the value of the pound but for you to continue to try to assert it is that alone is both wrong and naive, and to think that there are those among you that claim we leavers aren't informed enough.
Not hard at all...yet. The minefield is still to come. Loved Boris' speech... same one he gave in 2016. Was ******** then too but we so quickly forget.
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Vinny C
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yes, I've already sent apologies above. It's not the first time I've been wrong and won't be the last
You should get into politics... oops... I talked crap!
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Vinny C
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#70
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#70
So funny... cabinet members should be running off to their Union reps. The boss has sacked me because of my political beliefs!!!
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Burton Bridge
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Vinny C)
You should get into politics... oops... I talked crap!
I was a member if the Labour Party.
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ColinDent
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Vinny C)
Not hard at all...yet. The minefield is still to come. Loved Boris' speech... same one he gave in 2016. Was ******** then too but we so quickly forget.
How long can you more deluded remainers kick this minefield down the road, it was meant to happen as soon as we voted to leave.
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Vinny C
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#73
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#73
(Original post by ColinDent)
How long can you more deluded remainers kick this minefield down the road, it was meant to happen as soon as we voted to leave.
For how long can you believe the same speech? It was complete crap last time and still you suck it up!
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