In your experience, which unis dominate TC intake at Magic Circle and US firms?

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HarvestingSeason
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I'm assuming this has been done to death, but here goes.
The universities in question are: LSE, UCL, KCL, Durham, Bristol and Warwick.

I've been doing quite a bit of research (the last 5 days have consisted entirely of me going through Linkedin profiles, graduate surveys and Longitudinal Education Outcomes (LEO) studies).
Now everything seems to nicely fit bar one thing.
This: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/wh...d-universities
This survey usually gets tossed around a lot but it seems incongruent with the other stats. How are there more trainee solicitors coming from Bristol and Durham at MC firms when a simple search on Linkedin will yield a far greater number of people from the three London unis.
Anyone care to comment on this?
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999tigger
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Amazing thread and very interesting points. Very moving you decided to create a new account for this pressing issue. I am surprised it hasnt got many more responses. Maybe do some more research and then refocus it. You should try opening this discussion on other legal forums as well to get the widest selection of responses.
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J Papi
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(Original post by HarvestingSeason)
I'm assuming this has been done to death, but here goes.
The universities in question are: LSE, UCL, KCL, Durham, Bristol and Warwick.

I've been doing quite a bit of research (the last 5 days have consisted entirely of me going through Linkedin profiles, graduate surveys and Longitudinal Education Outcomes (LEO) studies).
Now everything seems to nicely fit bar one thing.
This: https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/wh...d-universities
This survey usually gets tossed around a lot but it seems incongruent with the other stats. How are there more trainee solicitors coming from Bristol and Durham at MC firms when a simple search on Linkedin will yield a far greater number of people from the three London unis.
Anyone care to comment on this?
If you know that this has been done to death, why are you asking the same boring question? Go read the 50 million threads that have discussed this at length.

I'm typing this out one last time so that I can copy-paste the link to this post to anyone who can't do data analysis.

  • Linkedin is unreliable because the search results you get are limited by the size and makeup of your network.
  • The survey you cite is out of date by several years and covers graduates who graduated in the middle of the crisis. Sample sizes etc. are unknown.
  • The data doesn't cover just MC firms - it covers MC firms and other 'large city firms'. The difference between 'large' and 'small-to-medium' City firms is not defined. We don't know which firms fall into which category. Does Travers count as a 'large City firm'? Does Bristows? I suspect that the definition is pretty lax, given that Manchester and Edinburgh are also up there - and they often feed into regional offices and Scottish law firms respectively.
  • The simple explanation for the disparity is that there are more Durham law grads (300+ p.a.), a lot more Bristol law grads (400+ p.a.), and a far higher proportion of them are UK domiciled, which suggests that they are more likely to stay in the UK and look for a job at these sort of firms. The disparity in the # non-law graduates is even starker. By contrast, if you look at Singa and HK representation, you'll find King's and UCL doing very well, often placing above Oxbridge. Why? Because they've got more Asians in their intakes. I'll post a thread with a lovely breakdown of the data at some point.
  • You need to look at typical graduate paths and expectations for students in law and non-law disciplines at each university. Anecdotally, it's quite common to see Durham Econ students on vac schemes. You'll never see an LSE or UCL Econ student on a vac scheme because they're all applying to IB/elite consultancies.
  • Salary data needs to be viewed in light of the % of graduates in actual employment 1/3/5/10 years down the line. A university that has most of its graduates unemployed, but which has a few grads in high-flying positions, comes out better off than one whose grads all got jobs, albeit at less selective/prestigious/whatever firms.
  • None of this matters - all of the unis you mention are visited by the top law firms, have good alumni networks at them, blah blah blah. The only people who really care about this stuff are dickmeasuring first years. Getting a TC is always down to you, not your university.
Last edited by J Papi; 8 months ago
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J Papi
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Amazing thread and very interesting points. Very moving you decided to create a new account for this pressing issue. I am surprised it hasnt got many more responses. Maybe do some more research and then refocus it. You should try opening this discussion on other legal forums as well to get the widest selection of responses.
Wouldn't be surprised if they took this post seriously...
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HarvestingSeason
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Uhh, sorry... I was just interested in where the discrepancy came from. Thanks for the response.
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999tigger
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
Wouldn't be surprised if they took this post seriously...
I am impressed with the learning and dedication that some people share on TSR. The fact it deserves a whole new account is also impressive. Not sure you get such quality posting and wisdom on the medical forum.
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J Papi
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(Original post by HarvestingSeason)
Uhh, sorry... I was just interested in where the discrepancy came from. Thanks for the response.
I'll tag you when the thread with the numbers of UK, EU and non-EU students graduating with law degrees from these universities is up. The differences between regional unis like Durham and Notts and the London unis will be quite startling (for example, there are years where UCL only produced 50 UK-domiciled LLB graduates).

Edit: Also, the survey you used is out of date - a more recent survey (which only refers to 'City firms' and 'Regional firms') can be found here:
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/wh...versities-2019
with predicted NQ earnings for the trainees that were interviewed available here:
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/wh...duate-earnings

I think that it's clear that, if the new survey was only able to divide interviewees into City vs Regional categories, that each category can refer to an exceptionally wide range of firms, ranging from the elite and well-respected to the obscure and sh*te.
Last edited by J Papi; 8 months ago
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HarvestingSeason
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(Original post by JohanGRK)
I'll tag you when the thread with the numbers of UK, EU and non-EU students graduating with law degrees from these universities is up. The differences between regional unis like Durham and Notts and the London unis will be quite startling (for example, there are years where UCL only produced 50 UK-domiciled LLB graduates).
Thanks, would really like to see some stats on that to get a clearer picture.


(Original post by 999tigger)
I am impressed with the learning and dedication that some people share on TSR. The fact it deserves a whole new account is also impressive. Not sure you get such quality posting and wisdom on the medical forum.
Made a new account because I asked for the old one to be deleted (community staff also thought the name was potentially offensive, which I think is fair).
TSR seems to be a pretty corrupting influence though. Never thought I'd spend so much time thinking about such petty things (i.e. making threads about this all the time).
I'm also a total rookie when it comes to virtually anything having to do with the job market in the UK so you'll have to excuse me when I sound like a moron and ask really similar things several times.
Last edited by HarvestingSeason; 8 months ago
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J Papi
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(Original post by HarvestingSeason)
Thanks, would really like to see some stats on that to get a clearer picture.
No problem, even though this contextualisation does have its own problems (e.g. we're assuming that non-UK domiciled grads are likely to leave for their own countries when this may be less likely if they secure a TC early on or if their home country doesn't recognise their law degree, we're assuming that few-to-no LLB grads will pursue other career paths, we're ignoring the massive influence of non-law grads on recruitment numbers in a sector where circa 50% of City firms' intake is non-law, etc.)

Do check the edit, it really drives home the point that the data you cited may in fact refer to a lot of firms, many of which you may deem to not be 'elite', well-paying, or at the top of the market.
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999tigger
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(Original post by HarvestingSeason)
Thanks, would really like to see some stats on that to get a clearer picture.



Made a new account because I asked for the old one to be deleted (community staff also thought the name was potentially offensive, which I think is fair).
TSR seems to be a pretty corrupting influence though. Never thought I'd spend so much time thinking about such petty things (i.e. making threads about this all the time).
I'm also a total rookie when it comes to virtually anything having to do with the job market in the UK so you'll have to excuse me when I sound like a moron and ask really similar things several times.
Did you make a thread about the difference between Oxbridge and then getting a first in lesser universities such as Durham or Nottingham?
Are you actually at one of these universities? Do you have a first?

I'd have thought it would be smarter to focus and learn about things you can do something about?

You know in the real world there are lots of very good firms outside the MC or US firms and the reality might not be what you think.

Get into the best uni you can and get the best degree possible. Work on your application and learn all the knowledge of how to make yourself more competitive. You can then see where you fit in the food chain and some additional research might help you narrow down which firms you might like and the ones you would hate. Money and supposed prestige doesnt always make it worthwhile if you are miserable and have no outside life. See how you get on.
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J Papi
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(Original post by 999tigger)
You can then see where you fit in the food chain
This is a v. good point - one of the big differences between a person at Cleary or Skadden and a person at a mid-market firm are their A-level and university grades. An Oxbridge student with A*AA and a mid-2:1 will be at a big disadvantage, all other things being equal, to a non-Oxbridge student with A*A*A* and a First. But no one will know their exact position until they get their first year results and actually send out some applications.

Threads like these are so ridiculously deterministic. It's common for newbies to assume that that Uni X somehow controls its students like automata, and that it is in a position to guarantee good or bad grad prospects.
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