Time for Labour to get a new leadership Watch

Fullofsurprises
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Drewski)
Left of centre without being able to be presented as a communist would appeal to a silent majority in the country who, despite attempts at polarisation, are still broadly speaking centrist.
Yes, all the more so given the rightward lurch of the Tory Party to try to out-Right the Brexit Party.

Someone like Yvette Cooper or Keir Starmer would be able to win centrists over and create policies that genuinely address the legacy of the financial crisis of 2008 and its lasting effect on the marginalised coastal and rustbelt areas.
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fishies
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Drewski)
Replaced by someone capable of building a consensus and winning a majority in the House of Commons will suffice.
So you don't care if it's a liberal aka mini tory government? Gotcha.
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tenacity
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#23
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#23
Hilary Benn
Hilary Benn
Hilary Benn
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Drewski
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#24
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#24
(Original post by fishies)
So you don't care if it's a liberal aka mini tory government? Gotcha.
Anything else won't get in.

You can have your principles if you want them, but what good are they if you're just *****ing from the cheap seats because you can't get anything done?

This is typical of the current crop of bs artists. All mouth, no trousers. Don't actually want power because then you can't let people down, you'll just pretend you could do all this nice stuff.
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Guru Jason
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#25
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#25
I think Corbyn would do alright against Boris as Boris is the living embodiment of everything Corbyn opposed. He just need to make sure people see that.
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Fullofsurprises
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#26
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#26
(Original post by tenacity)
Hilary Benn
Hilary Benn
Hilary Benn
Benn would win by a large majority in the country. He's a formidable politician and a very clever man.

The Momentum lot don't like him though, they see him (not quite correctly) as a right wing Blairite.
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JohanGRK
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#27
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And yet you still get the die-hard Corbynites that see the EU as an obstacle to JC's grand nationalisations and state subsidies... because he's definitely coming into power after Brexit... ****ing leftist idiots
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xDron3
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#28
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#28
As someone who's always supported Conservatives. Our entire party and structure is a mess at the moment, and any strong candidate from the Labour party could easily win a GE and any other elections but Corbyn has somehow managed to destroy the Labour party and split its voters. I'm really surprised he's still there.
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tenacity
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Benn would win by a large majority in the country. He's a formidable politician and a very clever man.

The Momentum lot don't like him though, they see him (not quite correctly) as a right wing Blairite.
I think that oppponents in Momentum could be sufficiently quelled by an olive branch that invokes his father's memory and an appeal to compromise

He is for his relation probably the only moderate Labour MP they would ever at this point be willing to work alongside
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Alt Tankie
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
A general election in the Autumn looks highly likely. Johnson won't be able to meet the demands from the ERG wing of his party for a Hard Brexit, the Irish backstop will remain unreconcilable with the DUP and ERG and his airy predictions that he can resolve it will prove to be so much hot air. Therefore Boris will have to go to the country in October, before the crucial deadline (which wasn't crucial at all until Brexiteers said it was) of Oct 31st.

Labour could win this - but only with a new leader. Corbyn is hopelessly unlikely to win or even match his performance at the last election. Boris is a far better candidate and although he will have had a few months to demonstrate his substantial capacity for screwing up, he will still look an attractive option compared to Jezza.

Corbyn's heart is in the right place, but he isn't the right person for the job. Labour needs to come out squarely for a second referendum and Remain. They need to take a lead and actively try to persuade. The working class voters in the poorer areas were conned by Farage and the right wing media. It will need a strong, effective leader to challenge that and one who can bring together the middle class and working class Remainers.

There is a big opportunity because Farage's Brexit party are going to take Tory votes in many areas. But someone other than Corbyn is needed to make that opportunity happen.

Without that, we may as well throw in the towel now, because the future looks bleak under a Johnson majority government:

- a Hard Brexit
- the ending of the UK - Scotland will secede and possibly Wales
- permanent right wing Tory rule in England
- a race to the bottom economy on taxes
- harsh reductions in worker rights, marginalised employees, massive unemployment, lower wages and increased temporary and insecure work
- huge cuts to public services on a scale not seen since the 19th century
Rubbish. This is also
The same exact argument that the Tories are saying. Never trust them.



The truth is I agree that Corbyn will probably not win in a snap general election BUT no one in labour will and it is simple delusion to think that it will be the case.

Who do you propose as a replacement and how are they going to win? Keir Starmer? Yvette Cooper? 😂😂😂

As plenty of northern labour MPs have stated they will get demolished if they back remain.

We should keep Corbyn until and if a worthy successor is found , and focus on class and economic issues and being anti war. This may not be effective in a snap general election before Brexit but will be afterwards and will be far more appealing than trying to be the Lib Dem’s lite.

The entire establishment is fighting tooth and nail to destroy Corbyn. We have to keep him in there because he is a threat to them unlike the sort of puppet you are suggesting.
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Alt Tankie
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Do you want Labour to win an election though? If so, we are agreed.

I'm not calling for a Blairite solution by the way. There are other good candidates. John McDonnell would be better than Corbyn as leader. So would Keir Starmer.
What in God’s name would be the point of replacing Corbyn with McDonnell??? That’s insane.
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Alt Tankie
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#32
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#32
Be honest Fullofsurprises if it meant keeping Britain in the EU you’d vote for George Osborne over a pro Brexit socialist party wouldn't you? Hell you’d probably vote for Thatcher 😂
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Alt Tankie
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Benn would win by a large majority in the country. He's a formidable politician and a very clever man.

The Momentum lot don't like him though, they see him (not quite correctly) as a right wing Blairite.
He’s the Labour parties very own John Bolton 👍🏻
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DSilva
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Yes, all the more so given the rightward lurch of the Tory Party to try to out-Right the Brexit Party.

Someone like Yvette Cooper or Keir Starmer would be able to win centrists over and create policies that genuinely address the legacy of the financial crisis of 2008 and its lasting effect on the marginalised coastal and rustbelt areas.
I too have issues with Corbyn, namely that I don't think he is capable of winning a majority.

But I'm not so sure someone like Cooper would be either. She'd be labelled by the media as a remoaner globalist elitist etc. In the same way that Clinton was destroyed by the media.

I think we need someone on the left, but who's younger, a better speaker and has no baggage. Unfortunately I don't see any such candidates.
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Alt Tankie
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#35
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#35
(Original post by xDron3)
As someone who's always supported Conservatives. Our entire party and structure is a mess at the moment, and any strong candidate from the Labour party could easily win a GE and any other elections but Corbyn has somehow managed to destroy the Labour party and split its voters. I'm really surprised he's still there.
A) As a Tory, do you care what labour members think of your leader? Because we really hate Boris.

B) More Labour members voted for Corbyn than Tories for Boris.

C) For someone destroying the Labour Party how did he just win a by election and increase seats and vote share at the last GE?
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Fullofsurprises
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#36
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#36
(Original post by DSilva)
I think we need someone on the left, but who's younger, a better speaker and has no baggage. Unfortunately I don't see any such candidates.
Milne and the others around Corbyn prevent anyone else from coming forwards who isn't properly (as they see it) attuned to the International Socialist propositions as defined in London Labour Briefing documents of the early 1970s. Struggle on in Comrade Trotskys footsteps!
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Alt Tankie
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Burridge)
As much as it pains me to say it, I think you're right. I voted for Corbyn during the leadership contest because I believe he genuinely cares about the working-classes - prepared to standup to 40 years of neo-liberal hardship that has plagued the lives of millions & millions up and down this country. But I don't think the man can win an election. We need strong opposition now more than ever - sadly JC just lacks the charisma & comes with too much baggage (a great deal of which unwarranted sadly) to put up a good fight. The anti-Semitism controversy is being very well spun by the media & coined with a disgruntled PLP, this is the weakest and most disunited Labour party I've seen in years.

Who would you like to see as the next leader?
So Corbyn is right but we should ditch him
Because he’s not liked by the neoliberal press, establishment and labour right wing. Ok, how will that change if they elect someone new, even if there was the ideal candidate which there isn’t?

She’s floated:

John McDonnell: which suggests to me she is on some hard medication

Hilary Benn: need I say more?

Keir Starmer: makes Corbyn look charismatic.

As I’ve said none of this matters. She is only interested in keeping the U.K. in the EU.


Seriously don’t know why she doesn’t join the Lib Dem’s?
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rimstone
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#38
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#38
years of smears and same nonsense argument, or lack of any ( some people esp ppl over 40ish hate corbyn for no reason ) and hes still here ... the labour membership want him ( he's not getting voted out, at all ). We dont need or want another wissy wassy centralist or ''new labour'', who achieve nothing, apart from appeasing the tories or ppl further right.

Not a cultish follower of JC, but hes still got my support and i do like where hes taken labour. if having him means we have to lose a bunch of low IQ brainwashed gammon to the BP or others, who cares .
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Fullofsurprises
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#39
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#39
(Original post by rimstone)
years of smears and same nonsense argument, or lack of any ( some people esp ppl over 40ish hate corbyn for no reason ) and hes still here ... the labour membership want him ( he's not getting voted out, at all ). We dont need or want another wissy wassy centralist or ''new labour'', who achieve nothing, apart from appeasing the tories or ppl further right.

Not a cultish follower of JC, but hes still got my support and i do like where hes taken labour. if having him means we have to lose a bunch of low IQ brainwashed gammon to the BP or others, who cares .
I liked him to start with. The problem is that he is far too indecisive and lacks leadership skills and ability. He is also completely mentally locked in a 1970s Marxist interpretation of the role of the EU. He is not honest about this, but his actions around it do not work and do not convince either voters or many of his own supporters.

I like him very much as a man, but he is not able to beat the Tories under Johnson. I also strongly suspect that he doesn't want to.
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Alt Tankie
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Milne and the others around Corbyn prevent anyone else from coming forwards who isn't properly (as they see it) attuned to the International Socialist propositions as defined in London Labour Briefing documents of the early 1970s. Struggle on in Comrade Trotskys footsteps!
i’d rather Seumas Milne help run the Labour Party then Alistair Cambell thanks 👍🏻

Hmmm....

70s (No EU)

Free university, no foreign entanglements, fully nationalised NHS...

2000s (after EU)

Mass privatisation, foreign wars, benefit cuts, tuition fees, new labour (All of which opposed by Corbyn and supported by the people FoS wants to replace him with.

‘Nuff said
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