Will Scotland vote for independence? Watch

DeesideEwan
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Do you think Scotland will vote to leave the U.K. if their is a second independence poll?
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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It could quite possibly push enough people in favour of independence, particularly in tandem with Johnson at the helm.

The more vandalistic Brexiters have made it quite clear that the destruction of the UK as we know it is a price worth paying for Brexit, so they wouldn't care.
Last edited by Trotsky's Iceaxe; 4 weeks ago
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StriderHort
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'Probably'

It was close last time, but pretty much all the 'vows' the Tories & Labour used to talk us out of it last time were unsurprisingly broken (EU membership, stable currency, more powers ect) so that would help, general faith in blue & red has bombed. Possibly fair degree of voter apathy by now though, in both the SNP and the idea.
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Lilli22
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As a Scottish person, I didn't want to leave the UK in the independence referendum. Now that we're being pulled out of the EU, I'd vote to leave the UK if we had another referendum. It's a shame because it's nice to be united, but ultimately, I'd rather be in the EU than in the UK.
Last edited by Lilli22; 4 weeks ago
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by DeesideEwan)
Do you think Scotland will vote to leave the U.K. if their is a second independence poll?
Scotland might struggle. They are not arguing to be an independent nation but one linked to the European Union. The big question is where does Scotland’s allegiance lie, with Europe or the UK?

Some of the politicians are painting distinct images different to what will really happen with an independent Scotland.
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AngryRedhead
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I hope not, I kind of like studying there and it’d be a historic shame to end a union of over 300 years
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BeetRoots
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As a country they voted remain so as far as democratic mandate is concerned they should do so. If I was Scottish I would want to leave the UK so that rejoining the EU was possible.
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The Mogg
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Just going to point out that even though a higher percentage of people voted leave in Wales, more people actually voted to leave in Scotland (1,018,322 in Scotland compared to Wales' 854,572) Also, if you subtract Wales' leave votes from the total leave votes, Leave still wins (17,410,742 - 854,572 = 16,556,170, for reference Remain had 16,141,241 votes) So for this Remain claim, Scotland is more to blame than Wales.
(Original post by Lilli22)
As a Scottish person, I didn't want to leave the UK in the independence referendum. Now that we're being pulled out of the EU because of Wales and England, though, I'd vote to leave the UK if we had another referendum. It's a shame because it's nice to be united, but ultimately, I'd rather be in the EU than in the UK.
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Lilli22
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(Original post by The Mogg)
Just going to point out that even though a higher percentage of people voted leave in Wales, more people actually voted to leave in Scotland (1,018,322 in Scotland compared to Wales' 854,572) Also, if you subtract Wales' leave votes from the total leave votes, Leave still wins (17,410,742 - 854,572 = 16,556,170, for reference Remain had 16,141,241 votes) So for this Remain claim, Scotland is more to blame than Wales.
Ah OK, thanks for the correction I'll edit my post!
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L i b
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(Original post by StriderHort)
'Probably'

It was close last time, but pretty much all the 'vows' the Tories & Labour used to talk us out of it last time were unsurprisingly broken (EU membership, stable currency, more powers ect) so that would help, general faith in blue & red has bombed. Possibly fair degree of voter apathy by now though, in both the SNP and the idea.
I'm not sure I ever heard anyone promise that the UK would forever be bound to stay in the EU. The argument was that Scottish independence, by default, would place Scotland outside of the EU. As for a stable currency - the pound is hardly unstable. The one about more powers is just bizarre to me: the Scotland Act 2016, the Smith Commission and all that. Quite a difficult lot to miss.


(Original post by BeetRoots)
As a country they voted remain so as far as democratic mandate is concerned they should do so. If I was Scottish I would want to leave the UK so that rejoining the EU was possible.
The question of "to what end" arises. Are you just attached to the European Union as a sort of quasi-European nationalist? Or, if the argument is one of utility, how can that possibly be made, given that Scotland trades four times as much with the rest of the UK than it does will all the countries of the EU put together?

I appreciate the EU is the cause du jour - and as a Remain voter, I reckoned it was in the UK's economic interest to be part of the EU. But I simply can't see how an act of economic vandalism like taking Scotland out of the UK - particularly after we've seen just how many problems leaving even a 45 year old union has - would be anything but madness.
Last edited by L i b; 3 weeks ago
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DarthRoar
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Scotland: We want to leave the UK.
UK: Uh why?
Scotland: We want control of our own country, and not be controlled by some faraway central government.
UK: Okay, and what are you going to do once you have control?
Scotland: We're going to rejoin the EU, giving away control to some faraway central government.

huh
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random_matt
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Hopefully.
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L i b
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(Original post by DarthRoar)
Scotland: We want to leave the UK.
UK: Uh why?
Scotland: We want control of our own country, and not be controlled by some faraway central government.
UK: Okay, and what are you going to do once you have control?
Scotland: We're going to rejoin the EU, giving away control to some faraway central government.

huh
Can we just clarify that not only did Scotland vote by a sizeable majority to remain in the UK, also hundreds of thousands more people in Scotland voted to stay in the UK than voted to remain in the EU.

Even among the Scottish nationalists, about a third of them are anti-EU.
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123543
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Firstly, if you are a Scottish nationalist and you view Brexit as a threat to Scotland, economically, socially and politically, then you have another thing coming if want Scotland to try to leave the UK. It would be like a no-deal Brexit amplified tenfold. The position of the SNP is objectively hypocritical.

Also, best of 3 if Yes wins?

It would be utterly catastrophic on so many levels and I sincerely hope we do not leave just because some people think that Kevin Bridges saying "Get us out of here" is some kind of hilarious meme. Scottish nationalists take the economic and social consequences of Brexit seriously but throw all sense out of the window as soon as they hear "Flower of Scotland."
(Original post by StriderHort)
'Probably'

It was close last time, but pretty much all the 'vows' the Tories & Labour used to talk us out of it last time were unsurprisingly broken (EU membership, stable currency, more powers ect) so that would help, general faith in blue & red has bombed. Possibly fair degree of voter apathy by now though, in both the SNP and the idea.
And the SNP vows about:

- "oil revenues"
- "currency guarantees"
- "once in a generation"
- "self-sustenance"

Also, vows from better together:

- EU membership - there was no clear promise that the UK would remain a member of the EU and you were naive in 2014 if you didn't think the tories would include a referendum on it in their 2015 manifesto, particularly noting the rise of UKIP.

- Stable currency - yes, we've kept the pound which is considerably more stable than the vast majority of currencies. The very point about currency in an independent is it would be unstable! Alternatively, we can choose to join the Euro. I'm sure that would be a fantastic economic choice. All these points were made by Better Together and they still stand.

- Further devolution - The Smith Commission was honoured. What was promised and agreed upon was honoured. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ntents/enacted
Last edited by 123543; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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Hope they vote to leave, hope they stay in EU. I'll be moving there if those two things happen.
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123543
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Do you know what the criteria are for a new member state to join the EU?

If you're so oppositional to Brexit then why aren't you vehemently oppositional to Scottish independence? Surely it would be categorically worse, socially, politically and otherwise, no?
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Hope they vote to leave, hope they stay in EU. I'll be moving there if those two things happen.
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sinfonietta
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I'm Scottish, voted against independence the first time, and would do again if it came to it.
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Last edited by sinfonietta; 3 weeks ago
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barnetlad
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I don't expect them to have the opportunity.
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123543
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Exactly, 2014 - once in a generation.
(Original post by barnetlad)
I don't expect them to have the opportunity.
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L i b
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Hope they vote to leave, hope they stay in EU. I'll be moving there if those two things happen.
As British citizens, we enjoy the right to move completely unhindered around the United Kingdom.

If you break up the United Kingdom, there's no particular reason to assume that will continue.
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