Will Scotland vote for independence? Watch

ColinDent
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Alt Tankie)
Beat me to it
But if Scotland,Wales and N Ireland were to have an equal amount of seats as England then that would make a vote in said countries worth more than one cast in England.
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Quady
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#62
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#62
(Original post by ColinDent)
But if Scotland,Wales and N Ireland were to have an equal amount of seats as England then that would make a vote in said countries worth more than one cast in England.
Yes?

Edit
Assuming static populations of course
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RomainNeedsHelp
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#63
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#63
I am not British myself but I am really enthusiastic about the United Kingdom and Scotland is a very important historical part of the UK so it would be unnecessary for England and Scotland to separate now
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BeetRoots
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#64
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(Original post by ColinDent)
But if Scotland,Wales and N Ireland were to have an equal amount of seats as England then that would make a vote in said countries worth more than one cast in England.
Exactly, so it's a flawed relationship among sovereign nations. Scotland should set itself free of Farage and all that he represents.
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Quady
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#65
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#65
(Original post by RomainNeedsHelp)
I am not British myself but I am really enthusiastic about the United Kingdom and Scotland is a very important historical part of the UK so it would be unnecessary for England and Scotland to separate now
Why?
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RomainNeedsHelp
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#66
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(Original post by Quady)
Why?
I have watched many films and historical documentaries about Scotland and Scottish culture and when one thinks of what is Britain one thinks of Scotland as well as of England and it is the perfect >300 years marriage and so many people are happy with it why would anyone end it now : (
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kali8603
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#67
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#67
Scotland won't vote for independence, because they won't be allowed too. Scotland leaving the UK? Over my dead body. SNP are a stupid, brainless party who only have rampant nationalism and neoliberalism at heart, rather than the actual class struggle. Nationalism is merely a diversion from class struggle. Scotland has never been oppressed, Scotland had colonies of its own FFS.
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TheMcSame
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#68
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I find it seemingly unlikely.

Even out of the EU, there's more benefit to staying in the UK than being in the EU on their own. In fact, Scotland's deficit to GDP ratio is one of the worst in within the EU (10-11%, the EU asks for 3% though can be flexible with it, the UK's is about 6%, Scotland likely being responsible for dragging it down by a few %) meaning it would be unlikely that they'd even qualify for membership. Not only would they cut ties with an economy that keeps them propped up, they also cut ties with the country that imports most of their goods/services, then on top of all that, they likely wouldn't even be able to rejoin the EU.

If you thought Brexit was bad, Scottish independence would be a disaster. It'd be Greece all over again, this time without the aid of the EU propping everything up.
Last edited by TheMcSame; 3 weeks ago
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kali8603
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#69
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The irony, the SNP wanting Scotland to be "independent" by leaving one union - the UK - and then joining another, - the EU-.

Scottish independence offers no benefit, their economy would be about the size of belarus, and they would be waiting years to join the EU.
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Quady
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#70
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(Original post by RomainNeedsHelp)
I have watched many films and historical documentaries about Scotland and Scottish culture and when one thinks of what is Britain one thinks of Scotland as well as of England and it is the perfect >300 years marriage and so many people are happy with it why would anyone end it now : (
Which films? Trainspotting?

If it were perfect nobody would suggest it. As it is 44% voted for the idea last time.
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RomainNeedsHelp
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#71
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(Original post by Quady)
Which films? Trainspotting?

If it were perfect nobody would suggest it. As it is 44% voted for the idea last time.
Lol Trainspotting that was a very witty response to which I cannot even respond. I suspect that you are right, there are many things I simply do not know having never lived in Scotland, but nonetheless the majority is for remaining part of the UK right?
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ColinDent
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#72
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
Exactly, so it's a flawed relationship among sovereign nations. Scotland should set itself free of Farage and all that he represents.
If that's what Scot's truly want then I would be a hypocrite to argue against their rights to do so, and I'm not one so I would say have another referendum and make your choice.
The terms of the relationship have changed sufficiently to ask the question again, just as they did when Mr Major signed us up for the ****show that is the EU when we also should have been given the choice.
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BeetRoots
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#73
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(Original post by RomainNeedsHelp)
I have watched many films and historical documentaries about Scotland and Scottish culture and when one thinks of what is Britain one thinks of Scotland as well as of England and it is the perfect >300 years marriage and so many people are happy with it why would anyone end it now : (
The Scottish people might want to end the Union because, for example, Brexit (which Scotland rejected) will diminish Scotland's wider political, social and economic interests and increase England's self-serving shadow over it. We're talking about people's real lives, not films.
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BeetRoots
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#74
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(Original post by ColinDent)
If that's what Scot's truly want then I would be a hypocrite to argue against their rights to do so, and I'm not one so I would say have another referendum and make your choice.
The terms of the relationship have changed sufficiently to ask the question again, just as they did when Mr Major signed us up for the ****show that is the EU when we also should have been given the choice.
When a hard Brexit hits we'll see what a real '****show' looks like. Farage and Johnson should be going to prison. I only hope that it's leave voters who suffer the most.
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Last edited by BeetRoots; 3 weeks ago
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Burton Bridge
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#75
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#75
Highly doubtful any Westminster party would grant them the chance
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Strelzo
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#76
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#76
Hopefully not.
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ColinDent
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#77
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(Original post by BeetRoots)
When a hard Brexit hits we'll see what a real '****show' looks like. Farage and Johnson should be going to prison. I only hope that it's leave voters who suffer the most.
How very magnanimous of you, I look forward to my impending doom.
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123543
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#78
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I believe that if a party, such as the Conservatives in 2015, wins a majority on a manifesto pledge to hold such a referendum, it must be held. Indeed, we then must respect the outcome.

However, I totally agree with you. In a representative democracy, the need for plebiscites seems rather odd. The fact that society does appear to be increasingly demagogical just further emphasises this.

(Original post by L i b)
The old argument against super-majorities in referendums (or percentage of entire electorate floors etc) was that a referendum where the majority voted one way, but that failed to meet the criteria would never settle a question.

We've had a couple of major constitutional referendums in Scotland and the UK in recent years. Both have produced results: one quite narrow, one not so narrow. Neither settled the question.

Which ultimately creates the question - why bother with referendums at all if results aren't accepted and questions aren't settled? Their only use, it seems, is to help demagogues get some coverage for their positions.

Ultimately I think both referendums have to be respected and government should oppose any re-runs for a good long time. But I think we should probably learn from this experience as well and stop doing these bloody things.
Last edited by 123543; 3 weeks ago
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123543
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#79
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#79
Well, personally I believe that the pros of the EU vastly outweigh the benefits of leaving. However, my priorities are different to many people. You need to recognise that not everyone views everything from your perspective.

Here are some reasons why people may have voted leave. I do not necessarily agree with these, I'm creating a hypothetical argument for your own satisfaction to demonstrate why some people voted Leave:

- Gaining increased sovereignty over our laws
- Leaving the jurisdiction of European courts
- Gaining the ability to strike free trade deals outwith the EU
- The ability to control migration and move away from freedom of movement
- Gaining control over our fisheries and leaving the CFP
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I respect your position however I would ask one question. Give me one positive of leaving that outweighs a negative? Not just one positive, but one that outweighs a negative.

Hell of a statement to make from a campaign that promised £350m for the NHS that has yet to materialise, among countless other ‘promises.’

Remainers work with facts, as in, we will have to pay more to export our goods, fact, this will make our products less competitive, fact, this will mean less of our products will be sold, fact, this effects company profits, fact, this will result in job losses, fact. Or are you one of these idiots who thinks that job losses are inevitable so we might as well accept it?

For both, I go back to my original point, 51/49 is not a mandate and shouldn’t be taken as one. Cameron quite naively thought that the British public would not be so stupid as to vote to leave, he didn’t anticipate we would want to **** on our own doorstep...
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gw07mcgheerachel
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#80
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#80
I believed we were better off independent and I still believe it. I think more people will vote for it now because of Brexit. I don't believe we have to rely on England and allow the other UK countries and UK parliament to drag us down. If we become independent we can make our own decisions on what we want not what the rest of the UK want. We have free health care and education and so own I dont want this to change and in order to stay the same we should become our own country.
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