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Will Scotland vote for independence?

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Reply 100
Original post by 123543
If you're so pro-EU, then isn't it hypocritical to suggest:

" I don't believe we have to rely on England and allow the other UK countries and UK parliament to drag us down. If we become independent we can make our own decisions on what we want not what the rest of the UK want."

Literally, change England/rest of the UK to Europe.

Why don't we have independence for your local council area? Surely you don't want to have to rely on Holyrood and other Scottish councils? If your council becomes independent they can make important decisions on what they want, besides from bin collections.

I find myself in agreement on this broad point. In the 2014 referendum, the Yes campaign united around a "Yes Declaration". For those unaware, it said: "I believe it is fundamentally better for us all, if decisions about Scotland's future are taken by the people who care most about Scotland, that is, by the people of Scotland. Being independent means Scotland's future will be in Scotland's hands."

Every notably nationalist politician in Scotland signed up to that. It inherently precludes membership of the European Union. I've not been terribly impressed with the SNP's approach to the EU - even modern politicians like Nicola Sturgeon joined the SNP when it was still a Eurosceptic party, yet apparently now EU membership is a core part of her belief system? That's simply opportunism.

The reality is, and has always been, that most people in Scotland are pretty comfortable working and co-operating with their neighbours.
Reply 101
Original post by 123543
VAT is partly devolved.

Other than that, what substantial changes would you make? The SNP haven't made great swathes of changes with their new powers.


VAT has not been devolved at all, unless I've been asleep and it's April 2020 and it's happened.

Well should Bojo go ahead with his plan to raise the upper earnings threshold of NI it might be wise for Scotland not to bother. I'm not really advocating doing anything with them, the people should decide that.
There is no second referendum, but yes I think they would vote for it, especially if Brexit goes poorly.
They would then have to split from the UK and apply as a new entrant to the EU, which would take it several years.
Scotland buys more into the EU ideal than England.
Reply 103
Original post by 123543
You seriously underestimate the strength of British diplomacy.


When do we get the oil tanker back?

As an ex-FCO staffer I merely estimate it.
Come on now, you know VAT is in the process of being devolved :wink:

Why does everything need to be devolved, by default? Surely you agree that union-wide fiscal policy on issues like corporation tax makes sense for economic stability?

Original post by Quady
VAT has not been devolved at all, unless I've been asleep and it's April 2020 and it's happened.

Well should Bojo go ahead with his plan to raise the upper earnings threshold of NI it might be wise for Scotland not to bother. I'm not really advocating doing anything with them, the people should decide that.
Name any other nation on the globe that would get their oil tanker back from Iran through diplomatic means. I fear you're scrutinising the UK on an issue when you really should be looking at the actions of the Iranian government/IRG.

Fair enough, I can't disagree with that - I don't think a final year school student can really comment when you've seen it first hand. In a non-sarcastic way, thank you for serving the country.
Original post by Quady
When do we get the oil tanker back?

As an ex-FCO staffer I merely estimate it.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 106
Original post by 123543
Come on now, you know VAT is in the process of being devolved :wink:

Why does everything need to be devolved, by default? Surely you agree that union-wide fiscal policy on issues like corporation tax makes sense for economic stability?


Not really, which is why Bojo has had the idea of free trade zones.

How would having multiple corporation tax rates destabilise the economy? Someone should let him know.
Reply 107
Original post by 123543
Name any other nation on the globe that would get their oil tanker back from Iran through diplomatic means. I fear you're scrutinising the UK on an issue when you really should be looking at the actions of the Iranian government/IRG.

Fair enough, I can't disagree with that - I don't think a final year school student can really comment when you've seen it first hand. In a non-sarcastic way, thank you for serving the country.


I suspect Russia would.
Without the threat of military action/violence of some description, as subtle or discrete as it may be?
Original post by Quady
I suspect Russia would.
Reply 109
Original post by 123543
Without the threat of military action/violence of some description, as subtle or discrete as it may be?


Those threats are also part of UK diplomacy.

Russia can hit them economically too. Saudi would be another example.
Why can't the UK hit them economically?
Original post by Quady
Those threats are also part of UK diplomacy.

Russia can hit them economically too. Saudi would be another example.
Reply 111
Original post by Quady
Not really, which is why Bojo has had the idea of free trade zones.

How would having multiple corporation tax rates destabilise the economy? Someone should let him know.

The opposition to differential corporation tax levels largely came from the Labour Party. Their objection was that it would lead to a race to the bottom. My concern would be that it would result in greater intra-UK tax avoidance.
Reply 112
Original post by 123543
Why can't the UK hit them economically?


Not in OPEC.
Which an independent Scotland could join :-)
They'll vote for it when oil prices are high - and frankly good riddance
Having their own NHS budget and state subsidised education is frankly a damn joke in this 'United Kingdom' and having the gall to whine about unfair treatment
If we had a vote as to whether England, Wales and N.I. wished for them to stay the result would have been very different to their referendum I assure you.
Original post by 123543
What use is staying in the UK to us:

- Free movement and no hard border between Scotland and England (External Schengen border if we opt to rejoin the EU)
- Pension security (UK legislation secures pensions)
- Currency security (GBP backed by 32,000,000 taxpayers)
- Job security to the tune of 528,707 jobs (2013 study by Fraser of Allander institute)
- Banking protections (UK legislation protects all savings up to £85,000 if a bank goes under; something increasingly on the rise)
- Trade (Internal trade within the UK worth 4x more than trade to the EU)
- Social protection (No passport/Visa checks required for travel)
- United defence policy
- Existing infrastructure of the state
- Strong international relations and world standing

Would you like to substantiate your claim as to why "we're better off leaving regardless of Brexit?"


- Policies such as bedroom tax would not be allowed if Scotland is independent
- Government can make decisions that reflect what we want and not what the rest of the UK want
- We can set up our welfare
- We have oil revenue
- We can still remain close with other UK countries
- We can make our own decisions on things such as immigration
Original post by VMD100
They'll vote for it when oil prices are high - and frankly good riddance
Having their own NHS budget and state subsidised education is frankly a damn joke in this 'United Kingdom' and having the gall to whine about unfair treatment
If we had a vote as to whether England, Wales and N.I. wished for them to stay the result would have been very different to their referendum I assure you.


Sorry why are our devolved powers a joke?
QUOTE]

Original post by L i b
And Scotland is, of course, not a sovereign nation. It is part of a sovereign state, the United Kingdom.

If you really think Nigel Farage, a passing politician, is an excuse to break up a 300 year old union, I suppose you should similarly hold the view that the personal flaws of Alex Salmond equally make the case to abolish devolution. Both are ridiculous propositions.


But the central Brexit' agenda was to be 'free' from EU 'red tape' which for Farage and right-winger leave voters means laws and policies which may protect ordinary folk but which cost businesses and tax-payers money. It's pretty naive to think that post-Brexit all that cut and paste EU legislation will be safe, it won't, it will be altered, weakened and abolished to suit the Farage agenda.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by BeetRoots
QUOTE]



But the central Brexit' agenda was to be 'free' from EU 'red tape' which for Farage and right-winger leave voters means laws and policies which may protect ordinary folk but which cost businesses and tax-payers money. It's pretty naive to think that post-Brexit all that cut and paste EU legislation will be safe, it won't, it will be altered, weakened and abolished to suit the Farage agenda.


You are so inaccurate if you believe all Brexit voters are right wing
Original post by Burton Bridge
You are so inaccurate if you believe all Brexit voters are right wing


I'm sure there have been and still are plenty self-identifying as left that voted for and support Brexit but the Brexit' movement was and remains a right-wing vehicle to cast aside EU obstacles to things like weakening health and safety, weakening environmental obligations, weakening or abolishing things like minimum-wage (which was only implemented because the EU required it). People on the left who voted for Brexit have been duped or deluded. I'm guessing recession and redundancies will start mounting by early 2020 at the latest. Well done.
Original post by gw07mcgheerachel
Sorry why are our devolved powers a joke?


Because it is ridiculous a nation that is propped up financially by England actually ends up having greater opportunities than the country holding them up, you're on the gravy train now and if you actually left (which sadly I feel won't happen) you'd see the reality. I almost wish leave would win, just to see their faces when they realise we own a share of the oil fields too they're not only Scotland's

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