Prime Minister backs high Speed rail in the north. Watch

Andrew97
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49132477

What do we think? Should we focus on existing issues first rather than investing in new projects or is this a good move?
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LiberOfLondon
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Good idea. My dad's family live Oop Narth and the trains rarely work. At least someone is doing something for those north of the Watford Gap.
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Trotsky's Iceaxe
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The current HS2 is of questionable economic benefit and already massively over budget due to shoddy Conservative planning.

So Johnson's response is to shake that magic money tree and do it all over again?
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Fullofsurprises
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This is just the Northern Powerhouse commitment again. It was originally promised by Osborne, but nothing happened and indeed even the small steps towards it which they re-committed to in 2012 were later put on the back burner. I feel sceptical that this is anything more than a fantasy pre-election 'promise'. There is no real evidence that they intend to do this.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe)
The current HS2 is of questionable economic benefit and already massively over budget due to shoddy Conservative planning.

So Johnson's response is to shake that magic money tree and do it all over again?
It's ridiculously unlikely that they can find the money, even as part of a pre-election splurge. HS2 has now apparently risen from £56bn to £85bn and most experts think it will hit £100bn. It's an absolutely stupid waste of money on a staggering scale. Even stranger, it's only happening due to the EU directive on high speed rail - one might think that such dedicated anti-EU types would not want to be such slaves to Europe. :rolleyes: Anyway, it isn't going to happen - they will continue to lip service it for a while, but sooner rather than later the disproportionate cost of it will eventually hit home. They could double the entire west coast main line for less than 1/5th of the price.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Good idea. My dad's family live Oop Narth and the trains rarely work. At least someone is doing something for those north of the Watford Gap.
HS2 was launched by the Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

The legislation to build the first stage was passed under Prime Minister Theresa May.

The legislation to build the first half of the second stage is still bogged down under Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
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barnetlad
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There is no agreed route and it is only a part of what is needed. It seems to be just a way to try to be seen as not ignoring the north of England. Despite the image, there are a number of Tory MPs in the area that will benefit, or nearby.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
This is just the Northern Powerhouse commitment again. It was originally promised by Osborne, but nothing happened and indeed even the small steps towards it which they re-committed to in 2012 were later put on the back burner. I feel sceptical that this is anything more than a fantasy pre-election 'promise'. There is no real evidence that they intend to do this.
Have you ever travelled across the longest fantasy pre-election promise in the world; from Barton to Hessle across the Humber?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Have you ever travelled across the longest fantasy pre-election promise in the world; from Barton to Hessle across the Humber?
Wasn't that something to do with John Prescott? (not sure of my facts here)

I imagine the Northern Powerhouse Super-Railway will end up as a couple of extra Pacers on the lines. (Bank Holidays only and no service after 2pm.)
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Wasn't that something to do with John Prescott? (not sure of my facts here)

I imagine the Northern Powerhouse Super-Railway will end up as a couple of extra Pacers on the lines. (Bank Holidays only and no service after 2pm.)
No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_H...th_by-election

The rumour was that Barbara Castle was told to announce a new bridge across the Hull River and got it wrong
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
No

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_H...th_by-election

The rumour was that Barbara Castle was told to announce a new bridge across the Hull River and got it wrong
Hee hee, I didn't know there was a River Hull, just looked it up.

So was it promised then, 1966? Opened 1981. Not bad going for Britain. :teehee:
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nexttime
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I think that investment in transport links that aren't either in London or go to London is long, long overdue. Like, should have happened 20 years ago.

This 'announcement' is actually a substantial back-track on the original HS3 proposal and I have zero faith that this brings anything forward or makes anything more likely though. If anything, Borris' spending splurge and commitment to a no-deal Brexit makes this project substantially less likely than it was 2 weeks ago.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nexttime)
I think that investment in transport links that aren't either in London or go to London is long, long overdue. Like, should have happened 20 years ago.

This 'announcement' is actually a substantial back-track on the original HS3 proposal and I have zero faith that this brings anything forward or makes anything more likely though. If anything, Borris' spending splurge and commitment to a no-deal Brexit makes this project substantially less likely than it was 2 weeks ago.
Yes, because where is the money to come from? Boris also wants to cut a number of important taxes, we are told.

The government could boost borrowing, but unless the new Chancellor is a total tool, he will presumably be made aware of the upcoming fiscal pressures from Brexit. At minimum, this will be an interesting test of to what extent the new 'we love Brexit' cabinet are prepared to stick their fingers in their ears and ignore reality.

EDIT: Oh lol, Boris has just promised a further £3.6bn for depressed towns. The cash tills are well and truly open! I wonder what happened to austerity??
Last edited by Fullofsurprises; 3 weeks ago
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Napp
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Political promise, nothing more.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Napp)
Political promise, nothing more.
Totting all the various promises of the last few days, we will be needing to go cap in hand to the IMF some time in September, to explain why we are now more in debt than Greece.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Totting all the various promises of the last few days, we will be needing to go cap in hand to the IMF some time in September, to explain why we are now more in debt than Greece.
NERD ALERT

Cameron's constitutional vandalism (not to be confused with Blair's constitutional vandalism) means another crisis may be coming.

Javid has to present a budget this autumn. There is some talk of it being October 7. You can debate whether a budget three weeks earlier than it otherwise might be is an "emergency" budget.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1UL0P2

After a budget speech; there are four days of budget debates and then various Resolutions are put to the Commons to give temporary legal effect to many of the budget measures.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...getResolutions

The most important of these was the Resolution to continue levying Income Tax but that is less important now with an Autumn budget because Income Tax wouldn't otherwise end until 5th April 2020. All changes to taxes need a Resolution.

Traditionally defeat on the Budget Resolutions was seen as a VoNC but it isn't a VoNC under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

But by October Boris is likely to have a majority of 1. Here is a portrait of his majority.

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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
NERD ALERT

Cameron's constitutional vandalism (not to be confused with Blair's constitutional vandalism) means another crisis may be coming.

Javid has to present a budget this autumn. There is some talk of it being October 7. You can debate whether a budget three weeks earlier than it otherwise might be is an "emergency" budget.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...-idUKKCN1UL0P2

After a budget speech; there are four days of budget debates and then various Resolutions are put to the Commons to give temporary legal effect to many of the budget measures.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...getResolutions

The most important of these was the Resolution to continue levying Income Tax but that is less important now with an Autumn budget because Income Tax wouldn't otherwise end until 5th April 2020. All changes to taxes need a Resolution.

Traditionally defeat on the Budget Resolutions was seen as a VoNC but it isn't a VoNC under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act.

But by October Boris is likely to have a majority of 1. Here is a portrait of his majority.

:rofl:

Yes, I've been wondering about the budget. Are the likes of Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve and yes, Hammond, likely to sign off an a wild surge in spending designed to keep Bojo in permanent office and deliver a Hard Brexit? And if not, if the spending promises are all just so much empty Trumpian frothing, won't that become completely clear on Mr Javid Esq's (I'm following Rees-Mogg rules on the use of 'Esq' now) first red case at the bar?

This is of course another reason why there is a pressing need for an election no later than 10 October.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Yes, because where is the money to come from?
The same worry hasn't stopped them pissing away money for Crossrail hand over fist for the last decade. It's delayed by what, another year and it's cost has doubled. Yet no ****er complains about that because it's in London and TFL can do no wrong.

Yeah, this is just a repeat announcement. Fine. But the fact it's still on their agenda is a positive.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Drewski)
The same worry hasn't stopped them pissing away money for Crossrail hand over fist for the last decade. It's delayed by what, another year and it's cost has doubled. Yet no ****er complains about that because it's in London and TFL can do no wrong.

Yeah, this is just a repeat announcement. Fine. But the fact it's still on their agenda is a positive.
Well, Crossrail did at least actually happen, unlike the total vapourware that is Northern Powerhouse Rail. And yes, the cost of Crossrail has risen alarmingly, to the point where it is now almost 1/5th of the projected cost of the *first* stage of the HS project. I think I rest my case M'Lud, although I'm not quite clear what case. :teehee:

TFL are regularly accused of doing wrong by the way and the Select Committee and media tore the **** out of Crossrail and TFL management.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Well, Crossrail did at least actually happen, unlike the total vapourware that is Northern Powerhouse Rail. And yes, the cost of Crossrail has risen alarmingly, to the point where it is now almost 1/5th of the projected cost of the *first* stage of the HS project. I think I rest my case M'Lud, although I'm not quite clear what case. :teehee:

TFL are regularly accused of doing wrong by the way and the Select Committee and media tore the **** out of Crossrail and TFL management.
That's more or less my point.

These projects get the go ahead - despite them pissing the money up the wall - because they're in London.

Equivalent projects up north don't get the go ahead.
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