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Original post by Wired_1800
Superstitious? These are elements that show the positives of Islam

The first pillar of Islam "There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.", shows veneration for a deity that engages in eternal torture and a religious leader who according to Islam's central religious text engaged in terrorism and expected other Muslims to do the same against non-Muslims.

"(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes." This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. This is the torment, so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire." - qur'an 8:12-14

"Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment." - qur'an 4:56

That is only negative superstition, which has caused much damage to the world.
Original post by Wired_1800
Wow, that is a wicked thing to say about Islam. How can you compare Islam to devil worship?

They're both worship of imaginary beings. Don't the Abrahamic religions claim that a god created the Devil, knowing what they would do? They also claim some evil behaviour by their god - not much difference between them, IMO.
Original post by RogerOxon
They're both worship of imaginary beings. Don't the Abrahamic religions claim that a god created the Devil, knowing what they would do? They also claim some evil behaviour by their god - not much difference between them, IMO.

Wow
Original post by Onde
The first pillar of Islam "There is no god but God. Muhammad is the messenger of God.", shows veneration for a deity that engages in eternal torture and a religious leader who according to Islam's central religious text engaged in terrorism and expected other Muslims to do the same against non-Muslims.

"(Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes." This is because they defied and disobeyed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever defies and disobeys Allah and His Messenger, then verily, Allah is Severe in punishment. This is the torment, so taste it, and surely for the disbelievers is the torment of the Fire." - qur'an 8:12-14

"Surely! Those who disbelieved in Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) We shall burn them in Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for other skins that they may taste the punishment." - qur'an 4:56

That is only negative superstition, which has caused much damage to the world.

Are you Muslim?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/07/24/in-western-europe-familiarity-with-muslims-is-linked-to-positive-views-of-muslims-and-islam/
Original post by Wired_1800

No, but according to Muslims I was born one.

I consider torture and terrorism to be fundamentally immoral, so I could never have a positive view of Islam. If Muslims denounce Allah and Muhammad, then it is likely that I will have a positive view of them.
Original post by Onde
No, but according to Muslims I was born one.

I consider torture and terrorism to be fundamentally immoral, so I could never have a positive view of Islam. If Muslims denounce Allah and Muhammad, then it is likely that I will have a positive view of them.

As an ex-Muslim, I understand your views would be against Islam.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Wired_1800
As an ex-Muslim, I understand your views would be against Islam.

Well of course, according to Islamic dogma, most people are apostates and are deserving of being brutally slaughtered for that reason alone.
Original post by James2312
Everything a human does is unnatural so you're gonna need a better argument than that.If we left it to nature half of us would be dead from starvation or disease.Culture can be largely discounted I think.Homosexuality isn't a recent liberal thing.Its been around in all sorts of cultures throughout history.Even the most brutal punishments and harshest societies have failed to stop it occurring.So I think we can agree it's not down to culture.

No that's just nonsense. Clarify how everything we do is unnatural? It's quite the opposite. Knowing this just requires basic knowledge about human behaviour and simple observational skills. Also, 'natural' doesn't mean living like wild animals, in simple words it means behaving as we are designed to do. So could you also explain how 'half of us would be dead from starvation or disease'?

Same reasoning applies to homosexuality. I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it's unnatural - for example, in terms of reproduction, which is a basic fact and can't be denied. I don't think I have to explain further on this, it's quite obvious why.

Well most studies would disagree with your assumption because they show that homosexuality is caused by a mix of social, cultural and environmental factors too, and it plays a huge part.
Original post by TCFactor
Answer my question! What religion were the Ottomans? I'm confused here by your statement.


NO
The ottomans were not muslims
and even if they were, them doing an action doesn't mean anything
the ottomans lost their title of caliphate early on and then continued to build up layers of apostasy
Original post by Onde
Well of course, according to Islamic dogma, most people are apostates and are deserving of being brutally slaughtered for that reason alone.

You would not have good views on Islam, if you have left Islam.
Original post by Wired_1800
Wow, that is a wicked thing to say about Islam. How can you compare Islam to devil worship? This is very hateful.

On the contrary it is a completely accurate, dispassionate and logical statement to make. When are you going to answer my questions?
Original post by Good bloke
On the contrary it is a completely accurate, dispassionate and logical statement to make. When are you going to answer my questions?

I thought I have answered the non-Islam ones. What is your question?
Original post by Wired_1800
I thought I have answered the non-Islam ones. What is your question?

I asked you to explain precisely how you came to the conclusion that the five pillars present a good image of Islam.
Original post by Wired_1800
You would not have good views on Islam, if you have left Islam.

You claim not to be a Muslim, so according to Islamic dogma, you are just as much an apostate as me. I'm not sure what your contention is. The qur'an condones torture and terrorism: I would hope that anybody would find these to be fundamentally immoral.
Original post by Good bloke
I asked you to explain precisely how you came to the conclusion that the five pillars present a good image of Islam.

Because they show Islam in a positive light. During Ramadan, observants are encouraged to think about the less fortunate. Giving back is also another important element.
Original post by Wired_1800
Because they show Islam in a positive light. During Ramadan, observants are encouraged to think about the less fortunate. Giving back is also another important element.

Profession of faith? Praying? Paying tax? The latter must show all modern countries in a holy light, buy your logic? Explain.
Original post by Wired_1800
Wow, that is a wicked thing to say about Islam. How can you compare Islam to devil worship? This is very hateful.

Why do you have a negative view of devil worship? Did you recently recant?
Original post by Wired_1800
Because they show Islam in a positive light. During Ramadan, observants are encouraged to think about the less fortunate. Giving back is also another important element.

As I've already said, the first pillar of Islam "shows veneration for a deity that engages in eternal torture and a religious leader who according to Islam's central religious text engaged in terrorism and expected other Muslims to do the same against non-Muslims."

Hardly positive.
Original post by Wired_1800
Wow, that is a wicked thing to say about Islam. How can you compare Islam to devil worship? This is very hateful.

If you call making a simple statement of proven fact hateful then you have serious problems.

In addition, why are you wiilling to make such negative statements about one religion when you refuse to even comment about Islam?
Original post by Onde
As I've already said, the first pillar of Islam "shows veneration for a deity that engages in eternal torture and a religious leader who according to Islam's central religious text engaged in terrorism and expected other Muslims to do the same against non-Muslims."

Hardly positive.

So you ignored the other 4 pillars?

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