Is Boris the worst person to become PM? Watch

nulli tertius
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#41
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Madam Foster does not like the Pope.
A posting about the bizarre things that had happened today ended with a suggestion that a liberal making an anti-Semitic rant and a Ulster Presbyterian seeking the assistance of the Pope would cap it all.
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Wired_1800
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#42
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
A posting about the bizarre things that had happened today ended with a suggestion that a liberal making an anti-Semitic rant and a Ulster Presbyterian seeking the assistance of the Pope would cap it all.
I agree.
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londonmyst
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#43
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Not the worst person to become PM.
Harold Wilson, Edward Heath, James Callaghan, John Major and Gordon Brown were all awful PMs.
I can think of a few guaranteed to be a lot worse.
Among them: Ian Paisley Jr, Sammy Wilson, Chris Williamson, Jared O'Mara, Nadine Dorries, John Bercow and Nicola Sturgeon.
Last edited by londonmyst; 3 weeks ago
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barnetlad
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#44
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You might argue a case for Lord North, or perhaps Anthony Eden, but other than perhaps those two, he is the worst.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Not the worst person to become PM.
Harold Wilson, Edward Heath, James Callaghan, John Major and Gordon Brown were all awful PMs.
I can think of a few guaranteed to be a lot worse.
Among them: Ian Paisley Jr, Sammy Wilson, Chris Williamson, Jared O'Mara, Nadine Dorries, John Bercow and Nicola Surgeon.
Nicola Sturgeon?? Scotland’s Churchill??
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BeetRoots
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#46
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(Original post by gw07mcgheerachel)
Is Boris Johnson becoming PM really the worst thing ever? People are going on as if it's the end of the world. Can he do much worse than May? He might put on an act but he's not stupid and nor is May so why else choose him. The government is already a mess and I belive he can't do much worse.
May was ineffectual and incapable of actual negotiation. Johnson is incompetent, dishonest and reckless. For Johnson, being PM is just another top jape to add to his sense of Etonian achievement, it doesn't matter to him what the consequences of his words and deeds will be for others.
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gw07mcgheerachel
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#47
(Original post by BeetRoots)
May was ineffectual and incapable of actual negotiation. Johnson is incompetent, dishonest and reckless. For Johnson, being PM is just another top jape to add to his sense of Etonian achievement, it doesn't matter to him what the consequences of his words and deeds will be for others.
Maybe he'll be more effectful that may since it wouldn't be hard and he's already started making implementations
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Nicola Sturgeon?? Scotland’s Churchill??
Hardly considered a national hero in Scotland, particularly amongst scottish nationalists loyal to Alex Salmond.
She seems to have divided the SNP into two feuding factions and alienated a lot of men.
All the independence supporting guys I know are livid over the failings of that sexual assault investigation, blame her and say they will never vote SNP for as long as she's leader.
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123543
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#49
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- Education
- Health
- Taxation
- MUAP
- OBFA
- The deficit
- The never-ending cries for Indyref2

I can never understand why people vote SNP.
(Original post by londonmyst)
Hardly considered a national hero in Scotland, particularly amongst scottish nationalists loyal to Alex Salmond.
She seems to have divided the SNP into two feuding factions and alienated a lot of men.
All the independence supporting guys I know are livid over the failings of that sexual assault investigation, blame her and say they will never vote SNP for as long as she's leader.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by londonmyst)
Hardly considered a national hero in Scotland, particularly amongst scottish nationalists loyal to Alex Salmond.
She seems to have divided the SNP into two feuding factions and alienated a lot of men.
All the independence supporting guys I know are livid over the failings of that sexual assault investigation, blame her and say they will never vote SNP for as long as she's leader.
So they wanted her to get involved? She cannot do anything to appease everyone.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
So they wanted her to get involved? She cannot do anything to appease everyone.
It's more than that.
The pro Salmond faction view Alex Salmond as an innocent victim of persecution and believe he was betrayed by scottish nationalist women.
All their accusations seems to center around a group of female plotters; organizing a campaign of slanderous accusations and dirty tricks behind his back to ruin him.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me- but too many scottish nationalist guys seem convinced.
They have cast her as the ringleader, a female figurative version of Brutus the backstabber out to destroy Caesar.
But I'm getting a strong impression of lots of angry SNP guys that have issues taking women's claims of sexual assault seriously, who prefer to automatically believe claims of an evil plot than actually consider whether there might be a chance that the accusations are credible.
Of course the presumption of innocence should exist but constant howling about a dark conspiracy are not helpful to anyone, least of all SNP unity.
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RazzzBerries
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#52
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I personally think Hunt will be better in the long run after Brexit, but for our Brexit issue, I think Boris is someone who is able to actually negotiate with the EU rather than be pushed around like May was.
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Wired_1800
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#53
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(Original post by londonmyst)
It's more than that.
The pro Salmond faction view Alex Salmond as an innocent victim of persecution and believe he was betrayed by scottish nationalist women.
All their accusations seems to center around a group of female plotters; organizing a campaign of slanderous accusations and dirty tricks behind his back to ruin him.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me- but too many scottish nationalist guys seem convinced.
They have cast her as the ringleader, a female figurative version of Brutus the backstabber out to destroy Caesar.
But I'm getting a strong impression of lots of angry SNP guys that have issues taking women's claims of sexual assault seriously, who prefer to automatically believe claims of an evil plot than actually consider whether there might be a chance that the accusations are credible.
Of course the presumption of innocence should exist but constant howling about a dark conspiracy are not helpful to anyone, least of all SNP unity.
I thought people accused Sturgeon for being too close to the Salmond inquiry? It seemed that she was pro-Salmond, unless she hid her savagery really well.

My personal view was that there was a bid to destroy Salmond. There was a very quick and vicious attack of Salmond for a very short period. When it was discovered that he had raised a lot of money to defend himself in court, the attacks quickly simmered off because he was protected.

I remember there were calls for him to return the money raised or the platform to ban him. They knew he would be stronger, if he had the resources. This became evident when everything quickly died off.
Last edited by Wired_1800; 3 weeks ago
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z-hog
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#54
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What this country has to reflect on is that Boris may be the only way to get out of this mess, with Corbyn in the wings. Our finest and surely a reflection on the character of the nation, the political classes in every country are no more than just that. Oh well, if Boris is what it takes...
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londonmyst
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I thought people accused Sturgeon for being too close to the Salmond inquiry? It seemed that she was pro-Salmond, unless she hid her savagery really well.

My personal view was that there was a bid to destroy Salmond. There was a very quick and vicious attack of Salmond for a very short period. When it was discovered that he had raised a lot of money to defend himself in court, the attacks quickly simmered off because he was protected.
It's still going on internally.
Brexit related issues are just temporarily removing the spotlight, when the trial starts there will be mayhem.
Inside the SNP and the hardcore scottish nationalist support base, the pro-Salmond faction have cast her as chief villain.
Outside the SNP and in England, the accusation was that she was too close to Salmond- often made by those who openly despise both Sturgeon&Salmond and were likely attacking the SNP for political advantage.

Within scottish nationalism, the sheer venom between the two factions is obvious.
I've have die-hard SNP friends in each faction that refuse to talk to each other any more but message me to abuse each other.
Generally using very harsh insults, words like "traitor" and repeating the same old conspiracy theory.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by londonmyst)
It's still going on internally.
Brexit related issues are just temporarily removing the spotlight, when the trial starts there will be mayhem.
Inside the SNP and the hardcore scottish nationalist support base, the pro-Salmond faction have cast her as chief villain.
Outside the SNP and in England, the accusation was that she was too close to Salmond- often made by those who openly despise both Sturgeon&Salmond and were likely attacking the SNP for political advantage.

Within scottish nationalism, the sheer venom between the two factions is obvious.
I've have die-hard SNP friends in each faction that refuse to talk to each other any more but message me to abuse each other.
Generally using very harsh insults, words like "traitor" and repeating the same old conspiracy theory.
Oh wow, I did not know that it was this vicious. I hope both sides can put their differences behind them and support their Party.
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L i b
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I have little doubt that he'll be better than Theresa May, but that's not exactly a high bar.

One problem is that he's painted himself into quite a few corners before he's even started, particularly over Brexit.
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L i b
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I thought people accused Sturgeon for being too close to the Salmond inquiry? It seemed that she was pro-Salmond, unless she hid her savagery really well.

My personal view was that there was a bid to destroy Salmond. There was a very quick and vicious attack of Salmond for a very short period. When it was discovered that he had raised a lot of money to defend himself in court, the attacks quickly simmered off because he was protected.

I remember there were calls for him to return the money raised or the platform to ban him. They knew he would be stronger, if he had the resources. This became evident when everything quickly died off.
Alex Salmond was Nicola Sturgeon's mentor. However, he clearly sought to maintain influence after he stood down as SNP leader, which undermined her authority over the party. The sexual assault allegations made it worse - she clearly found his behaviour in response to that distasteful (as I'd imagine almost any reasonable person would), and he saw an opportunity to grasp back control from an indecisive and ailing First Minister who had replaced him.

It's certainly not the first time people have gone from close colleagues to not speaking to one another. I doubt we'll ever know quite what was said between them, but the relationship clearly soured.

And, by the by, he wasn't defending himself in court, he took the Scottish Government to court on some minor point about the investigative process. It was media trickery and very little more. He knew criminal charges were coming and wanted a win in even the most minor way possible.

Equally the fundraising thing was not financial, it was for status. It was a very public way of demonstrating power over his accusers and to his opponents within the party. He could have afforded his legal fees, yet there is a certain standing in getting lots of hard-up party members to dip into their meagre earnings entirely for his personal benefit.

What we should really be questioning is how a person like him ever reached the highest political office in the Scottish Government.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by L i b)
Alex Salmond was Nicola Sturgeon's mentor. However, he clearly sought to maintain influence after he stood down as SNP leader, which undermined her authority over the party. The sexual assault allegations made it worse - she clearly found his behaviour in response to that distasteful (as I'd imagine almost any reasonable person would), and he saw an opportunity to grasp back control from an indecisive and ailing First Minister who had replaced him.

It's certainly not the first time people have gone from close colleagues to not speaking to one another. I doubt we'll ever know quite what was said between them, but the relationship clearly soured.

And, by the by, he wasn't defending himself in court, he took the Scottish Government to court on some minor point about the investigative process. It was media trickery and very little more. He knew criminal charges were coming and wanted a win in even the most minor way possible.

Equally the fundraising thing was not financial, it was for status. It was a very public way of demonstrating power over his accusers and to his opponents within the party. He could have afforded his legal fees, yet there is a certain standing in getting lots of hard-up party members to dip into their meagre earnings entirely for his personal benefit.

What we should really be questioning is how a person like him ever reached the highest political office in the Scottish Government.
I think you are smearing Alex Salmond. You seem to be portraying him as a monster, who destroyed Scotland (and the SNP).

I agree that I don't know the full story but it seems there were dark forces out to get him. The speed at which there was a furore was outstanding and I questioned the sincerity of the plot.
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BeetRoots
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(Original post by gw07mcgheerachel)
Maybe he'll be more effectful that may since it wouldn't be hard and he's already started making implementations
Maybe. Maybe he'll be the all-loved saviour of the British people. Don't hold your breath.
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