Medical School vs Physician Associate
Hi TSRers,
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
Original post by MarkG531
Hi TSRers,
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
I think you have answered your own question here?
You could have a look at some of these and see whether any of them would fit your criteria, or see whether a PhD or Masters would top up your degree somewhere?
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Access_to_Medicine
Newcastle GEM accepts applications from "a practising health care professional with a post-registration qualification", so if you have a nursing qualification apart from your degree that might be an option. Otherwise a masters would open up SGUL / Swansea / Warwick (I think) and lower the score needed for Nottingham.
I don't think you're eligible for the Carmel College foundation year, this web page says you need a 2.1 https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/foundation-to-health-studies-year-0/entry-requirements/
I don't think you're eligible for the Carmel College foundation year, this web page says you need a 2.1 https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/foundation-to-health-studies-year-0/entry-requirements/
Original post by MarkG531
Hi TSRers,
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
My background is that I have 2:2 degree in Adult Nursing and am a current practicing nurse. I have several different options I'm currently considering but wanting to have a few opinions to help narrow the role down.
Since I started my nursing degree I had decided I wanted to be more medical than nursing, I didn't have the A-levels due to a lack of work ethic as a teen, I'm now 25 and fully motivated to dedicate myself and I am based in Liverpool. During my nursing degree I lost motivation due to several elements e.g. University was shockingly bad at communication, Inconsistent marking led me to resent Uni. There isn't a doubt that I would be able to perform well at Medical school for me.
I have done a fair bit of research and these are my options:
1. Apply for University of Nottingham as a GEM 4 year course (2:2 minimum) where I will need to obtain a high GAMSAT Score. I think March 2020 was the next exam date, where I'd happily study daily from now till then to obtain a high score. My only worry is that it may be too competitive and if I bank on that one application it would be devastating if I don't get a spot.
2. Apply for a foundation year with Carmel College (Liverpool) that works with University of Liverpool where you are guaranteed a spot in medical school. The con is that the course is 6 years long, £5250 for the foundation year and £9250 per year after.
3. Apply for a Physician Associate course (2 year course) there is massive campaign to recruit more PAs, the only disadvantage is that I wouldn't be a doctor and what if I feel like I want to go back to medicine after this?
And are you sure the Access Course guarantees you a place on the course? Most just make you eligible to apply along with everybody else, sometimes with a small number of places reserved for Access Course students. It suggests this may be the same half way down p2 here:
https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/media/livacuk/schoolofmedicine/documents/Liverpool,Departmental,Supplement,-,2019,entry.pdf
This also suggests Liverpool are still looking for a 2:1 even from Access Course applicants:
https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/media/livacuk/schoolofmedicine/admissions/Guidelines,for,applicants,offering,Access,courses,Entry,2020.pdf
Oh I misread that it was a 2:ii that was in the email, my fault for reading emails after a night shift!
I'll post the email as it has useful information for prospective students:
The Foundation to Health and Veterinary Science programme at Carmel College is not an access programme. It is part of a 6-year degree programme run in association with the University of Liverpool. It is unique, in that students who successfully complete the Foundation year (meeting the academic and professional progression criteria) are guaranteed a place on the Year 1 programme of their pathway (Medicine, Dentistry and Veterinary Science) the following academic year.
It is a full time programme which traditionally runs across 4 days (Mon/Tue/Thur/Fri (9.00-4.05)). We do not offer this programme as evening provision. The fees for the Foundation year are a reduced amount of £5,140, this then rises to the full £9, 250 University fees for the remaining 5 years of study. If students have not accessed HE funding before they are usually able to access fees funding for Years 1-5 of their professional degree but normally self-fund for the Foundation year (student finance for fees funding is generally restricted to 5 years per student).
There are very specific entry requirements for this programme. Applicants must meet the baseline GCSE Requirements (which are 5 GCSEs at grade B or above including Maths, English Language and either dual award (core and additional) science or two separate sciences. We cannot accept applications from candidates who studied both biology and chemistry at A level. If you studied other A levels you must have at least a 5 year gap between completion of your level 3 qualifications and application for the programme. If applicants hold a degree it must be of a 2:i classification and cannot be in a subject that would allow post-graduate entry to your degree (i.e. biomedical sciences or bio veterinary science). Applicants must also have relevant work experience.
Applications for the 2019 academic year are now closed. The new UCAS cycle will open in October for 2020 entry and the closing date for application is traditionally the 15th January.
I'm currently looking down the avenue of Nottingham vs. Newcastle.
I'll post the email as it has useful information for prospective students:
The Foundation to Health and Veterinary Science programme at Carmel College is not an access programme. It is part of a 6-year degree programme run in association with the University of Liverpool. It is unique, in that students who successfully complete the Foundation year (meeting the academic and professional progression criteria) are guaranteed a place on the Year 1 programme of their pathway (Medicine, Dentistry and Veterinary Science) the following academic year.
It is a full time programme which traditionally runs across 4 days (Mon/Tue/Thur/Fri (9.00-4.05)). We do not offer this programme as evening provision. The fees for the Foundation year are a reduced amount of £5,140, this then rises to the full £9, 250 University fees for the remaining 5 years of study. If students have not accessed HE funding before they are usually able to access fees funding for Years 1-5 of their professional degree but normally self-fund for the Foundation year (student finance for fees funding is generally restricted to 5 years per student).
There are very specific entry requirements for this programme. Applicants must meet the baseline GCSE Requirements (which are 5 GCSEs at grade B or above including Maths, English Language and either dual award (core and additional) science or two separate sciences. We cannot accept applications from candidates who studied both biology and chemistry at A level. If you studied other A levels you must have at least a 5 year gap between completion of your level 3 qualifications and application for the programme. If applicants hold a degree it must be of a 2:i classification and cannot be in a subject that would allow post-graduate entry to your degree (i.e. biomedical sciences or bio veterinary science). Applicants must also have relevant work experience.
Applications for the 2019 academic year are now closed. The new UCAS cycle will open in October for 2020 entry and the closing date for application is traditionally the 15th January.
I'm currently looking down the avenue of Nottingham vs. Newcastle.
@ForestCat may be able to offer some advice?
I’m a little out of date now with admissions I must say. I was in a slightly different position in that I had a higher grade for my nursing degree and a level bio and Chem which opened more doors for me.
I’m still unsure about the PA role. I know it’s becoming more popular but lots of trusts are also doing their own similar versions.
I think it depends on your personality. I was frustrated by the constraints in nursing and thus wanted to be able to go as far as I could. Even if I could have done PA at the time I don’t think I would have because it still has a lot of limits.
If you’re just looking to advance a bit but prefer stability than PA is probably a good option. It’s also quicker and cheaper. If you want to eventually be truly autonomous and want a wider range of specialities open to you then aim for medicine
I’m still unsure about the PA role. I know it’s becoming more popular but lots of trusts are also doing their own similar versions.
I think it depends on your personality. I was frustrated by the constraints in nursing and thus wanted to be able to go as far as I could. Even if I could have done PA at the time I don’t think I would have because it still has a lot of limits.
If you’re just looking to advance a bit but prefer stability than PA is probably a good option. It’s also quicker and cheaper. If you want to eventually be truly autonomous and want a wider range of specialities open to you then aim for medicine
Hi there, I don't know your financial or personal situation but as nursing is a stable career with a reasonable salary for someone with no dependents you could spend as much time as you like focusing on getting into medicine. Yes Nottingham/Newcastle may be your only options as far as GEM is concerned however you are still pretty young and could, therefore, make a number of consecutive applications if you were unsuccessful the first time.
PA vs Med is a personal decision for yourself. Just remember it would be a real shame if you went into PA then subsequently wanted to do medicine afterward.
I wish you good luck
PA vs Med is a personal decision for yourself. Just remember it would be a real shame if you went into PA then subsequently wanted to do medicine afterward.
I wish you good luck
Hi, I can totally see where you’re coming from, I’m going to be starting PA in a few weeks so I hope I can help with this decision.
So regarding medicine, I would definitely look into other unis and not put all of your eggs in one basket, and remember grades aren’t everything. If you look at it in 3 stages, undergrad grades (2:2, you have that so you’ve jumped through that hoop; GAMSAT you’ve just got to do better v everyone else, gamsat is already less popular than other tests (eg UCAT) therefore less people to beat; skills (judged at interview) once you get to interview it’s your experiences that will set you apart, you already have an proven clinical capability. So yeah, I think you should apply to GEM.
PA wise, you could totally go for it, a lot of nurses are moving towards PA to get a more medical role. But, like you said it’s not medicine and therefore you may still want to be a doctor at some point. There are PAs who have gone on to do medicine and been so successful at it. However with medicine being SO competitive and PA catching up, PA is absolutely not an alternative - any hint of this in an interview/personal statement would be a real downer for your application.
Overall, I think GEM is a better shout, you have time to work on your application and just need to smash the GAMSAT which you have plenty of time to revise for. I don’t think you should limit your application to just 1 uni, keep open minded you might have to make other sacrifices (eg doing undergrad medicine or have to do a MSc to further strengthen your application/give you more uni options). I think if you’re still in two minds about how much medicine you want to practice/what part of medicine to go into/as you said started off wanting to be a nurse, PA is a good compromise.
Hope that helps!
So regarding medicine, I would definitely look into other unis and not put all of your eggs in one basket, and remember grades aren’t everything. If you look at it in 3 stages, undergrad grades (2:2, you have that so you’ve jumped through that hoop; GAMSAT you’ve just got to do better v everyone else, gamsat is already less popular than other tests (eg UCAT) therefore less people to beat; skills (judged at interview) once you get to interview it’s your experiences that will set you apart, you already have an proven clinical capability. So yeah, I think you should apply to GEM.
PA wise, you could totally go for it, a lot of nurses are moving towards PA to get a more medical role. But, like you said it’s not medicine and therefore you may still want to be a doctor at some point. There are PAs who have gone on to do medicine and been so successful at it. However with medicine being SO competitive and PA catching up, PA is absolutely not an alternative - any hint of this in an interview/personal statement would be a real downer for your application.
Overall, I think GEM is a better shout, you have time to work on your application and just need to smash the GAMSAT which you have plenty of time to revise for. I don’t think you should limit your application to just 1 uni, keep open minded you might have to make other sacrifices (eg doing undergrad medicine or have to do a MSc to further strengthen your application/give you more uni options). I think if you’re still in two minds about how much medicine you want to practice/what part of medicine to go into/as you said started off wanting to be a nurse, PA is a good compromise.
Hope that helps!
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by PR24
Hi, I can totally see where you’re coming from, I’m going to be starting PA in a few weeks so I hope I can help with this decision.
So regarding medicine, I would definitely look into other unis and not put all of your eggs in one basket, and remember grades aren’t everything. If you look at it in 3 stages, undergrad grades (2:2, you have that so you’ve jumped through that hoop; GAMSAT you’ve just got to do better v everyone else, gamsat is already less popular than other tests (eg UCAT) therefore less people to beat; skills (judged at interview) once you get to interview it’s your experiences that will set you apart, you already have an proven clinical capability. So yeah, I think you should apply to GEM.
PA wise, you could totally go for it, a lot of nurses are moving towards PA to get a more medical role. But, like you said it’s not medicine and therefore you may still want to be a doctor at some point. There are PAs who have gone on to do medicine and been so successful at it. However with medicine being SO competitive and PA catching up, PA is absolutely not an alternative - any hint of this in an interview/personal statement would be a real downer for your application.
Overall, I think GEM is a better shout, you have time to work on your application and just need to smash the GAMSAT which you have plenty of time to revise for. I don’t think you should limit your application to just 1 uni, keep open minded you might have to make other sacrifices (eg doing undergrad medicine or have to do a MSc to further strengthen your application/give you more uni options). I think if you’re still in two minds about how much medicine you want to practice/what part of medicine to go into/as you said started off wanting to be a nurse, PA is a good compromise.
Hope that helps!
So regarding medicine, I would definitely look into other unis and not put all of your eggs in one basket, and remember grades aren’t everything. If you look at it in 3 stages, undergrad grades (2:2, you have that so you’ve jumped through that hoop; GAMSAT you’ve just got to do better v everyone else, gamsat is already less popular than other tests (eg UCAT) therefore less people to beat; skills (judged at interview) once you get to interview it’s your experiences that will set you apart, you already have an proven clinical capability. So yeah, I think you should apply to GEM.
PA wise, you could totally go for it, a lot of nurses are moving towards PA to get a more medical role. But, like you said it’s not medicine and therefore you may still want to be a doctor at some point. There are PAs who have gone on to do medicine and been so successful at it. However with medicine being SO competitive and PA catching up, PA is absolutely not an alternative - any hint of this in an interview/personal statement would be a real downer for your application.
Overall, I think GEM is a better shout, you have time to work on your application and just need to smash the GAMSAT which you have plenty of time to revise for. I don’t think you should limit your application to just 1 uni, keep open minded you might have to make other sacrifices (eg doing undergrad medicine or have to do a MSc to further strengthen your application/give you more uni options). I think if you’re still in two minds about how much medicine you want to practice/what part of medicine to go into/as you said started off wanting to be a nurse, PA is a good compromise.
Hope that helps!
Thank you very much everyone for your opinions. I have been interviewed for a course on PA at MSc, so pretty hopeful on that, should hear about the decision this week for starting this September! I would be happy with either to be honest. Just waiting on the outcome before I consider everything else.
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