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Students graduating at Aberystwyth University
Aberystwyth University

Should smacking children be made illegal?

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Original post by Good bloke
You should assure him that we will come to no harm from you.


:wink: you are safe in my hands, good bloke.
Students graduating at Aberystwyth University
Aberystwyth University
Original post by Oxford Mum
:wink: you are safe in my hands, good bloke.


be gentle with him Mum :hugs:
Original post by harrysbar
Chanel 5 are on the phone....they want to buy the rights to your idea

Presumably they have a counselling project set up for participants, and a helpline for the viewers who might have been affected by the issues raised in this programme.

I am looking forward to using the helpline service for viewers affected by helpline announcements.
Original post by the bear
be gentle with him Mum :hugs:

OK, promise I won't apply too much Tipex
Original post by Good bloke
Presumably they have a counselling project set up for participants, and a helpline for the viewers who might have been affected by the issues raised in this programme.

I am looking forward to using the helpline service for viewers affected by helpline announcements.

PRSOM
Although I would not smack my children as a man who physically and mentally is "in shape", my mother who was a single parent in a very difficult household with my two elder brothers (no point going into it as it would open a can of worms), used to smack myself and my brothers as a last resort. I don't resent her for that, I fully understand why she did it and if I could go back to those times again, I would probably tell her to do it again.

What I am trying to say is there are extenuating circumstances out there that may have smacking as a more plausable punishment than others. This hogwash about "oh it shows bad parenting" that I see used so much in arguments is exactly that....it's hogwash. You can't apply a general rule for parenting that is best for everyone and that everyone should follow., at least not in my eyes. My mother was, and still is, a great parent that I look up to, even to this day.

Edit: I feel like it's important to point out, I did not get into a large amounts of fights or altercations because I was smacked, I was not violent towards others, nor did I feel the urge to be. I was just a normal child outside of my home life.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Leviathan1611
not always. kids are crazy creatures.


fair enough
If you cannot manage your child without using your hand, I say there is something wrong with you.
I do agree that in some situations it is needed.

E.g. the child is having a temper tantrum and smashing the telly up with a hammer.

In such situations, if they don't get the back of the hand or indeed a quick jab to the oesophagus, then you're failing at the great and wonderful thing called parenting.
Reply 49
Would I ever smack my child? No.
Have I ever been smacked by my parents? No.
Do I think it's wrong and does it make me deeply uncomfortable? Yes
Do I think criminalising parents for disciplining their children how they wish, within reason, even if I abjectly disagree with it, is a sensible idea? Absolutely not.

I think it's as crucial to look at this through a legal lens as it is to look at it from the perspective of sociology and child psychology. There is a difference between the government recommending not to smack your children, based on the evidence presented by the Guest Lecturer (very informative and interesting, thanks!) and actually criminalising parents for utilising what they effectively view as a "discipline method."

I believe society faces an issue of looking at things and going "that's bad" - thus we make it "illegal" without remotely considering:

a) the legal ramifications of a change in criminal law
b) the very purpose of criminal law
c) enforcement
d) the impact on people charged with the offence.

Something I'm really interested in is the failings of the OBFA in Scotland. Although it was well-intentioned, if you observe the impact of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Acts, the legislation was poor, difficult to enforce and ventured into infringing upon freedom of speech. Similarly, a lot of anti-terror legislation in the 2000s was initiated "because we need to appear to be doing something." Resultantly, a lot of it was knee-jerk and violated human rights. There are some very interesting details on the Liberty website surrounding this - https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights/countering-terrorism. I do fear that something similar could happen if the state tries and effectively criminalise parents for an outdated form of disciplining their child.
(edited 4 years ago)
They say kids learn fast and pick up things. You think smacking will do any good? Maybe for the first ten/eleven years but once they are teenagers, that’s your only weapon against them gone. Using fear isn’t parenting, cause once a child gets over their fear, they can stand up against you. Maybe if parents were closer to their children,and learn to use their mouths rather than resorting to physical bearings, you would have a more respectful generation.
Original post by Professional G
They say kids learn fast and pick up things. You think smacking will do any good? Maybe for the first ten/eleven years but once they are teenagers, that’s your only weapon against them gone. Using fear isn’t parenting, cause once a child gets over their fear, they can stand up against you. Maybe if parents were closer to their children,and learn to use their mouths rather than resorting to physical bearings, you would have a more respectful generation.


imo if you smack em properly, be consistent and make sure they understand why they're getting smacked, and there's closure afterwards, then yes. if you just smack them and it doesn't hurt, not consistent, not clear why they were even hit, no closure afterwards, then I doubt it'd work.

I'm 18 and I still fear my mother so she's doing a good job.

you can be close to your kids and use physical discipline as well.

my mum used her mouth 90% of the time, and it was all insults, I'd rather get a beating any day.
Original post by Aberystwyth University Guest Lecturer
Physical harm against another adult is illegal across the UK, but reasonable force when 'smacking' children in England and Wales is not.

Scotland has banned smacking by making any physical punishment against a child a punishable offence. England and Wales haven't, but Wales is considering following Scotland’s example.

My question to everyone is while we have varying standards around smacking children in England and Wales, should children have the right to be protected from physical punishment in the same way as adults are protected?

What psychological reasons might parents and policy makers use to support for and against the banning of smacking in Wales?

Gareth is a Senior Lecturer in Social Psychology at Aberystwyth University in Wales. My main goal is to examine the relevance of social psychology in understanding everyday social issues and how such issues, like group and intergroup behaviour, body image, and life skills development are amplified through everyday practices, such as during our leisure time (e.g., sport, physical activity).


Detailed analysis below:

In the UK, it is illegal for a parent or carer to use unreasonable force against a child (and adult for that matter) for punishment, and this has led to variability in judging what ‘reasonable’ force means.

Factors that are used to make this judgement include:
- the age and sex of a child
- the force used by the adult.

What is clear in law is that injury and actual bodily harm (i.e., grazes, bruising, swelling) is illegal and past practices, such as corporal punishment and smacking in schools and nursery is now banned.

In Scotland, the term 'reasonable force' has been removed from law and makes any physical punishment against a child a punishable offence. In Wales a similar focus upon reasonable force as punishment has been targeted by the Welsh Government as it is seen as a ‘loophole’ across England and Wales to justify hitting one’s children.

(https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/25/smacking-children-to-be-banned-in-wales)

The problem

A common argument against banning smacking, usually comes from those opposed to banning smacking typically is along the lines of “I was smacked and it never did me harm” see here for further reading (Kish & Newcombe, 2015). The contradiction here is that those who were smacked tend to be those who also wish to continue the practice. There are of course plenty of people who were never smacked and turned out ok, too some may support the use of smacking while others might not.

Psychologically though, the issue remains the same around mimicking and normalisation of aggression. For decades, policy has tried to intervene by restricting the violence we see on TV and music we hear, and the idea is the same with smacking if children see it and hear it they will do. Consider this advert as an illustration of the psychological reasoning behind it:

[video="youtube;KHi2dxSf9hw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHi2dxSf9hw[/video]


However, the problem is actually an adult one because as adults we expect, from other adults to be protected by law against any assault especially as a disciplinary measure for poor work performance, bad behaviour, and incentive to be positive. For example, as adults we expect that if we hit someone we might be hit back or severely punished by our freedoms restricted through imprisonment, but we also expect through shared consensus that for society to operate with some structure it is in everyone’s interest that we do not hit each other.

If we as adults know and agree that hitting as punishment to correct behaviour is good for children, then why do we still grow up to be violent. Moreover, if it works, why is hitting adults also wrong?


Interesting laying out of the overall issue. It provoked a thought in me.

If a parent, having just recently struck their young child (something I'm a bit uncomfortable with as it all comes down to the severity of that blow and that isn't something we can reliably measure/don't have proper criteria for in law) is then challenged on it by that child, then it's very likely the adult will say/think something along the lines of:
"You're still developing cognitively and this is an important way for me to teach you lessons in that window. When you're older I will be able to reason with you more reliably and teach you the lessons you need to be safe and successful, but at this age, I sometimes need to rely on physical correction to make sure my point gets across."

Fair enough. But let's flash forward 30 or 40 years. Mum or Dad have deteriorated a lot in that time but not kiddo, he's gotten big. Cognitively impaired as they are, Mum and Dad start doing things that are dangerous to them (wandering out in the road, leaving the stove on etc.) and one day kiddo looks at his parents and thinks to himself "How was it they got their points across when I wasn't able to be reasoned with again..?"
If it's morally defensible to use physical correction as a last resort against a child, then why wouldn't it be in this scenario?

I should point out, I was never struck as a child and my parents are perfectly safe and well - I just made the mistake of studying philosophy at university, which encourages these types of intellectual rabbit holes. :P
(edited 4 years ago)
Smacking a child should be illegal, smacking teenagers should be allowed as teenagers can be willfull and difficult no matter how many times you try to reason with them as an adult sometimes it just doesn’t work. I was smacked myself as a teen and although sometimes my mum went a bit ott (one time I ended up with a bloody nose) I like to think I came out relatively okay
Original post by Leviathan1611
imo if you smack em properly, be consistent and make sure they understand why they're getting smacked, and there's closure afterwards, then yes. if you just smack them and it doesn't hurt, not consistent, not clear why they were even hit, no closure afterwards, then I doubt it'd work.

I'm 18 and I still fear my mother so she's doing a good job.

you can be close to your kids and use physical discipline as well.

my mum used her mouth 90% of the time, and it was all insults, I'd rather get a beating any day.


Relying on physical displine all the time gets you nowhere, same with insults. The first few times, sure it works but your child ends up getting used to it. Being consistent doesn’t change much since a child can easily toughen up. Hitting them harder or in more sensitive places is only a temporary advantage. By the time, they reach 18, you’ll be powerless against them.
I mean more than just a parent/child relationship. Like friends wise.
Original post by Professional G
Relying on physical displine all the time gets you nowhere, same with insults.

Why do you assume a smacking parent does not also use other methods of control? Why not use a method that depends on the situation?
Original post by Good bloke
Why do you assume a smacking parent does not also use other methods of control? Why not use a method that depends on the situation?


From my experience, smacking is their primary punishment, banishing and other methods are secondary.
Original post by Professional G
Relying on physical displine all the time gets you nowhere, same with insults. The first few times, sure it works but your child ends up getting used to it. Being consistent doesn’t change much since a child can easily toughen up. Hitting them harder or in more sensitive places is only a temporary advantage. By the time, they reach 18, you’ll be powerless against them.
I mean more than just a parent/child relationship. Like friends wise.


it did with my parents (the physical discipline, not the insults)
if you still need to be smacking your kids at 18, then I think you've failed at that point and should just give up. by the time they reach teenhood, they should rarely need to be smacked anymore.
Original post by Professional G
From my experience, smacking is their primary punishment, banishing and other methods are secondary.


banishing??
Original post by Leviathan1611
banishing??


sending them to their rooms.

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