"Contraception is unnatural, but so is the welfare state" Watch

~|Shock|~
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"Contraception is sometimes attacked as 'unnatural'. So it is, very unnatural. The trouble is, so is the welfare state".


"The welfare state is perhaps the greatest atruistic system the animal kingdom has ever known, But any altruistic system is inherently unstable, because it is open to abuse to selfish individuals".
-R. Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

As a theist I am certainly not Mr Dawkins' No.1 fan, but I certainly find this statement on the two (major) current issues, namely contraception, and welfare system, very striking. Especially the secound statement I listed here, I feel it is particularly true especially in the UK, there's certainly a sizable number of individuals who abuses the benefit system, which, should be seen as an exploitation.

A good example is here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7242762.stm

From nature's point of view, in almost any species, parents who haves more offsprings that they are capable of bring up will almost certainly be penalised by nature itself. Yet, in our society, some selfish individuals can just have more children they can bring up, and expect "the state" to take care of the rest. I believe such exploitation is completely unfair.

Criticism and challenge welcome.
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The_Goose
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I think it's a very strange parallel to draw to be honest. flying in aeroplanes is unnatural, computers are unnatural but we don't attack these things. just because one unnatural thing (contraception) can be attacked doesn't mean that everything should be.
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eDDeboo
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Isn't this what separates us from the rest of the animal world?

We look after others who aren't in our family.. A virtue, not a vice
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~|Shock|~
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(Original post by The_Goose)
I think it's a very strange parallel to draw to be honest. flying in aeroplanes is unnatural, computers are unnatural but we don't attack these things. just because one unnatural thing (contraception) can be attacked doesn't mean that everything should be.
I think the word, "unnatural", means a behaviour which causes the decrease in chance, (no matter how slightly), for a particular individual to survive.

I personally consider aeroplanes and computers are helpful inventions that helps our survival rather than hinder it therefore I dont think they are "unnatural".
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The_Goose
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well this got far :P
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Aesop
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(Original post by ~|Shock|~)
I think the word, "unnatural", means a behaviour which causes the decrease in chance, (no matter how slightly), for a particular individual to survive.

I personally consider aeroplanes and computers are helpful inventions that helps our survival rather than hinder it therefore I dont think they are "unnatural".
How so is contraception 'unnatural' under this definition then?
Besides, to even consider 'it's unnatural' a sound argument is ludicrous.

As for the welfare state, I believe that it is not unfair. I'm sure that while most people will claim to 'hate' their jobs and wish they could not work, this is only a feeling caused by contrast. Some people work, some do not. Ultimately, I would suggest that given both are able to live to an acceptable degree, their average levels of happiness are going to be roughly similar.

If life ultimately revolves around our happiness and the happiness of those close to us, where is the injustice?
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SoundDevastation
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'its unatural' is the weakest possible argument against anything.. go far enough back and breathing air is unnatural. Whether its natural or not, contraception is right for the planet and the species.

altruistic systems are of course unstable and open to exploitation. The only way to combat the problem is to automatically exclude such people from the system, however the true nature of altruism makes that impossible. We are not an altruistic species by nature as obviously some people would like to exclude such individuals... though my personal view is that education is the one and only answer. What is left out of the National Curriculum - LIFE.
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RightSaidJames
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(Original post by Aesop)
How so is contraception 'unnatural' under this definition then?
Besides, to even consider 'it's unnatural' a sound argument is ludicrous.

As for the welfare state, I believe that it is not unfair. I'm sure that while most people will claim to 'hate' their jobs and wish they could not work, this is only a feeling caused by contrast. Some people work, some do not. Ultimately, I would suggest that given both are able to live to an acceptable degree, their average levels of happiness are going to be roughly similar.
I think you've missed the point a bit. What the OP (and Dawkins) means is that contraception is unnatural because, from an evolutionary perspective the purpose of sex is to reproduce, yet the system we have in place to provide support for people who reproduce without the resources to provide fully for their children is also unnatural.
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Aesop
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Thanks for clarifying. I'm quite tired and I think I'll stick to the sidelines for tonight.
^^
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