Are Human Beings Fundementally Good or Fundementally Bad? Watch

Poll: Are Human Beings Fundementally Good or Fundementally Bad?
Good (21)
25.93%
Bad (13)
16.05%
Both; this question is unanswerable. (47)
58.02%
Yawn-er
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#21
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#21
Good.

Methinks we're conditioned by society to act in a certain manner which eliminates the 'innocence' present in people. So, I'll be agreeing with Rousseau on this one. Society fudges us up.
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Desperate Prayer
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#22
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#22
(Original post by SoundDevastation)
That is indeed a very good point and a good quote. I have alot of principles and I stand by them. I guess the one thing that really really bugs me about mankind (and has biased my viewpoint on this thread :rolleyes:) Is people who dont have principles to stand by.. people who blindly follow the system.

but thats going a little off-topic i think :p:
Add on to that people who base their principles on the vapid, and I think you have the two greatest sources of headaches for me

But yes, this is slightly off topic now - back to the floor!
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Kater Murr
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Desperate Prayer)
Add on to that people who base their principles on the vapid, and I think you have the two greatest sources of headaches for me

But yes, this is slightly off topic now - back to the floor!
Is that Byron in your avatar?
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Desperate Prayer
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Murr)
Is that Byron in your avatar?
It is indeed!
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Kater Murr
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Desperate Prayer)
It is indeed!
Ahh, he was so hot .
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Desperate Prayer
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#26
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#26
A gentleman philosopher, if you will.

And yes, he was, he is something of an idol to me.

But anyhow, we digress - back to the topic at hand :p:
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Aesop
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#27
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#27
Humans Are Bad Cos They Kill Animals And Stuff And War And That.
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Tombola
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#28
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#28
Yeah I'm more likely to go with the idea that people are more likely to be on the good side. It's part of empathy.
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M15T3R CH4RL35
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#29
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#29
I'm going to church tomorrow to hear the same old 'people saved' and 'get a place in heaven' so even religion is just about self security after death.

Let's face it we're all selfish *******s and we're all going to burn in hell.
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tristanperry
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#30
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#30
I believe that all Humans are fundamentally good, however there is a point of no return (pretty much) whereby some people will turn (and then stay) bad.

Hence I think that everyone starts off good (Hitler and Stalin as babies would be the same as any of us as babies..), but might (due to bad upbringing, mental health problems etc) turn bad.
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Desperate Prayer
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#31
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#31
(Original post by tristanperry)
I believe that all Humans are fundamentally good, however there is a point of no return (pretty much) whereby some people will turn (and then stay) bad.

Hence I think that everyone starts off good (Hitler and Stalin as babies would be the same as any of us as babies..), but might (due to bad upbringing, mental health problems etc) turn bad.
Id love to think we all started out good, but watching children for any length of time, even the most innocent and young, will show you that isnt true at all :p:

Are you honestly sold on the idea that there is a point of No return?

As ever, im simply curious - your opinions are your own
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tristanperry
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Desperate Prayer)
Id love to think we all started out good, but watching children for any length of time, even the most innocent and young, will show you that isnt true at all :p:

Are you honestly sold on the idea that there is a point of No return?

As ever, im simply curious - your opinions are your own
No problem at all

Sure, children can be selfish and egotistical (etc), however I greatly doubt they actually have *evil* thoughts.

As for a point of no return, I think that there would be a set point when people simply wouldn't be able to become good again. Maybe because they committed so many bad things (and so are in a sort of denial, etc) or may it is possible to fundamentally change?

However Nicky Cruz would be a counter-example to my "point of no return" theory, so maybe it's not too correct :p:
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NexusDominus
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#33
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#33
i gess its always going to be the balance we have understood from our actions...and even placed them or resembled them as neings...ie devil vs angel...hell vs heaven.
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Desperate Prayer
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#34
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#34
(Original post by tristanperry)
No problem at all

Sure, children can be selfish and egotistical (etc), however I greatly doubt they actually have *evil* thoughts.

As for a point of no return, I think that there would be a set point when people simply wouldn't be able to become good again. Maybe because they committed so many bad things (and so are in a sort of denial, etc) or may it is possible to fundamentally change?

However Nicky Cruz would be a counter-example to my "point of no return" theory, so maybe it's not too correct :p:
Something of a misunderstanding here :P I didnt mean to imply children were evil (although im sure many parents would disagree!) but merely neutral. They understand themselves, but thats about it - taking a toy from another child isnt usually malicious, its simply because the child wants it. They are something of a blank canvas for their environment to paint.

As for your second point, Id hate if that were true :P salvation, to me, is what you make of it. Is it possible for a child rapist or perhaps say, a dictator who lets his country suffer, to change? I belive that true evil is very, very rare in this world - doing something simply to cause harm or suffering to others. The child rapist would have issues that contributed to him finding it *acceptable* to do such things with a *child* - the dictator may be acting out of a misguided sense of right, blind to the suffering he creates, and if he does eventually realise, he finds himself too far in to change his course, even if he suddenly finds his actions reprehensible. I dont think theres a set point that you can pass, and not go back from. Whether others will *let* you find your salvation, or forgive you for what you did, is another matter entirely.
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Spike4848
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#35
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#35
Neither, we're fundamentally selfish which is something a bit different.
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prospectivEEconomist
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#36
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#36
People are normally evil when they don't have money or love (including both family and friends).
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tristanperry
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Desperate Prayer)
Something of a misunderstanding here :P I didnt mean to imply children were evil (although im sure many parents would disagree!) but merely neutral. They understand themselves, but thats about it - taking a toy from another child isnt usually malicious, its simply because the child wants it. They are something of a blank canvas for their environment to paint.

As for your second point, Id hate if that were true :P salvation, to me, is what you make of it. Is it possible for a child rapist or perhaps say, a dictator who lets his country suffer, to change? I belive that true evil is very, very rare in this world - doing something simply to cause harm or suffering to others. The child rapist would have issues that contributed to him finding it *acceptable* to do such things with a *child* - the dictator may be acting out of a misguided sense of right, blind to the suffering he creates, and if he does eventually realise, he finds himself too far in to change his course, even if he suddenly finds his actions reprehensible. I dont think theres a set point that you can pass, and not go back from. Whether others will *let* you find your salvation, or forgive you for what you did, is another matter entirely.
Lol fair enough - I agree with you there then

As for the second point, I hope it's not true either. However I think that, after a set point (i.e. after being responsible for the deaths of millions - e.g. Hitler), there'd be no real way to come back from that (IMHO). How could you rationalise the actions, and so forgive yourself?

However I definitely agree that it's also up to others to let you find salvation - it's not exactly like a ruthless dictator could get out of things easily at all.
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Ed.
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#38
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#38
With obvious exceptions, human beings I think are fundamentally good.
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Mcjazz
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#39
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#39
Fundamentally? Good. No one is born a bad person, but can be raised to become it.
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Tombola
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#40
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#40
Childhood = Society brings us up mostly to be good.
Adolescent = We start getting told that we the world is bleak.

By the time we get to adult hood... either we've developed a sense of doing good, or we've been corrupted somewhat by society. Those that are idealistic and still have their views develop a stronger sense of good, while others just drop the whole thing entirely.

On the whole though... Most people are still on the good scale.
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