To what extent does British patriotism verge on racism? Watch

fieryiceissweet
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im considering a title like this in my extended essay next year
(5000 words for a level)

i think its interesting
Discuss

(both the idea of the essay and the question itself)
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NDGAARONDI
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Why British specifically? We're a much less patriotic country compared to USA and France.
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Rav.
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Its racism when non-Brits are discriminated against, otherwise its ok to be patriotic.
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randomgirl
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British people can be any "colour".

I think yeah, some idiots might be patriotic AND racist, but a) not that many seem to be patriotic anyway and b) not all patriotic people are racist.

Personally I'm neither patriotic nor racist. And I don't think I know anybody who is.
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ninety_nine
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British patriotism proabably stems from the sheer amount of countries the English were able to colonise, creating the monumental British Empire. I think in general British patriotism is quite reasonable and reserved. We don't tend to have the kind of insane, shotgun-wielding patriotism some Americans have.
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SoundDevastation
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Patriotism can lead to racism in a country that was originally populated by one race.. i think in the past alot of racism did stem from extreme patriotism along with other factors, although today i think global issues contribute to racism alot more, and patriotism is on the decline.
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Psyk
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Isn't it nationalism that is more commonly associated with racism? I thought patriotism was a different (but some what related) concept.
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TommyWannabe
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I could write forever on that.

It's a bit much for A Level OP! That's dissertation level really. The amount of detail you could go into in HUGE.
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fieryiceissweet
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(Original post by TommyWannabe)
I could write forever on that.

It's a bit much for A Level OP! That's dissertation level really. The amount of detail you could go into in HUGE.
lol yeah 5000 words isnt bad though

good points mentioned though by others..
keep going
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KPeh
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Try the word nationalism (in its usual meaning, not 'BNP nationalism'). It's the Americans who do patriotism...
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by randomgirl)
British people can be any "colour".
This reminds me of what Howard, a person who used to frequent here, who stated a correct definition of British people in a historical context; that, the genetic mix up of British people overall over the millenia, means that black people are less British, or, at least, not originally. I'm not really bothered about this though. Now, I'm not very patriotic, despite what conclusions can be drawn from my signature, but I did laugh when Paul Ince got in a huff over the nationality debate over the appointment of Fabio Capello as England manager.

Personally, I favour stronger local identities within the country and that just doesn't mean Cornwall, hence the modified London flag. I will be getting myself some county flags (Berkshire for my place of birth and Durham City for obvious reasons) to take with me to university. I also felt that every citizen of the Commonwealth and Protectoriate countries being entitled to British citizenship also. France do something similar and it shows in their football team.
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Hanzing
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Interesting Question, a bit tricky if you have to go into your definitions of patritism and racist intent, for example while we may view someone performing a certain act which we may deem insulting or racist, another person may not (this could be for anything, such as flying the british flag or something). We all percieve things different ways.
I'd definately mention the BNP, There impact has by far I would think one of the strongest effect in the more harmful patriotic acts displayed in this country.
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GemmyMonster
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Hmmmmmmmmm.

Around 67.52% of how much it could potentially verge on racism.


Nah being serious, I think the whole thing is stupid. Everything being racism I mean. Even NOTICE someone isn't white or isn't english and you're accused of being racist now. Certianly don't dare wonder what country they're originally from, that's almost a criminal offence.

Nowadays we're meant to not see any difference between colours or races. And then, we're supposed to adapt to their culture. Odd, that.

Or maybe I'm crazy, who knows.
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jgupta
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A good 'rough' definition could be:

Nationalism is the belief that your race is superior
Racism is the belief that a certain race is inferior

It's really just a rough rule of thumb because as people have said, Nationalism covers the whole country rather than a specific race, but these are just two different factors of discrimination.

Despite this, I think that it could be a useful starting point if we are going to develop definitions.
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NDGAARONDI
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You could look at the Spanish oppression of Euskara of Catalonia under Franco.
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ForeverIsMyName
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(Original post by jgupta)
A good 'rough' definition could be:

Nationalism is the belief that your race is superior
Racism is the belief that a certain race is inferior
I like your contributions in religion, but please stay away from nationalism and patriotism threads. Completely off.
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annarchy
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#17
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My honest simple answer is to NO extent, patriotism in itself isn't racist at all.
Mostly because British isn't a race, so..........
Also because you can be black, white, Asian, hispanic and still be British and be proud of that...

It's usually the reasons behind the patriotic sentiment that you want to be wary of.
Like "I'm white British, look at all the darker peoples' countries, they are inherently incapable of thinking/being civil/adhering to democratic values, therefore I am way better than them and proud" I would think is pretty... "racist".
The loudest Patriots, the ones who get lots of the coverage, tend to have some degree of racist thinking, so the normal, decent, educated Patriots usually don't brag about how proud they are to be British because they don't want to be lumped in with the nasties.

My 2 cents.
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annarchy
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(Original post by GemmyMonster)
Hmmmmmmmmm.

Around 67.52% of how much it could potentially verge on racism.


Nah being serious, I think the whole thing is stupid. Everything being racism I mean. Even NOTICE someone isn't white or isn't english and you're accused of being racist now. Certianly don't dare wonder what country they're originally from, that's almost a criminal offence.

Nowadays we're meant to not see any difference between colours or races. And then, we're supposed to adapt to their culture. Odd, that.

Or maybe I'm crazy, who knows.
I don't really want to start a debate or a war, just would like you to elaborate on that, please?
I'm presuming by "adapt" you mean accomodate? Or...
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Ang|ophi|e
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#19
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To be patriotic is to have pride in one's nation while still respecting race. When one is proud of their race but feel superior against other races and makes an effort to show this, it can verge on racism.

For example, here in the US when 9/11 happened, everyone put the American flag on their cars, regardless of race. This was patriotism. It shows that people were proud to be American. The KKK for example is proud of their white race, however in the past they used to lynch African Americans only becuase they felt that African Americans were inferior to Whites. This was an act of racism.

edit: Seeing as I am American, that's the best example I can give. But I'm sure this can be applied to British patriotism and racism as well.
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NexusDominus
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wow....you'd have to mention a lot just on the basis of a more linear focal point like, tradition vs newage...that is the real answer.
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