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DarK LinK
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#181
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#181
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
Actually I was referring to the synopsis Chomsky wrote for Faurisson's book but thanks for playing.
Which was the essay on freedom of speech that he wrote, which was then attached the book when he allowed it to be used in any way.

He has in now way done anything you've accused him of.
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PeeWeeDan
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#182
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#182
"I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas chambers or even denial of the Holocaust"
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Malatesta
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#183
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#183
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
"I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas chambers or even denial of the Holocaust"
Well, there's not necessarily any anti-Semitic implications.
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DarK LinK
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#184
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#184
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
"I see no anti-Semitic implications in denial of the existence of gas chambers or even denial of the Holocaust"
What's incorrect about that sentence? ;/
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History Lost in Physics
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#185
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#185
(Original post by Bismarck)
No, just someone who wants hire 3 million more government workers, increase corporate taxes, force employers to have retirement accounts for their workers, force companies to give up "excess profits", increase spending by at least $500 billion a year, and pretty much destroy the dollar and the US economy in general.
So basically you're calling most of the countries in NATO communists, because that how most of them do business (not all obviously - none of them HAVE $500 billion a year to spend)

Also - are there any Now Show fans out there who have heard the song 'Barrack the Builder, can we fix it? Barrack the Builder - Yes We Can!" ??
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Made in the USA
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#186
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#186
(Original post by Bismarck)
Most NATO countries don't tax "excess profit". Neither do they go around nixing trade deals with their top trading partners (Obama wants to "renegotiate" NAFTA). They also don't increase spending by 4% of GDP when they already have a massive deficit.
Bismarck, what do you make of his reversal of so many of his positions over the last few weeks? Now he is for NAFTA?

I just read this story and he is going back on a lot of the statements he made before: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/maga...ion=2008061810

Now NAFTA is good I guess, and all that protectionist talk was just "rhetoric." Obama seems kind of schizophrenic on free trade and I'm not sure if it's because he doesn't know anything about economics or it's just a result of him trying to tell people what he thinks they want to hear.
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Rusty33
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#187
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#187
I think the part about politics that tires me the most is the fact that most people spend more time talking about negatives of an opponent than positives about themselves or someone they support.
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Rusty33
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#188
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#188
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Bismarck, what do you make of his reversal of so many of his positions over the last few weeks? Now he is for NAFTA?

I just read this story and he is going back on a lot of the statements he made before: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/maga...ion=2008061810

Now NAFTA is good I guess, and all that protectionist talk was just "rhetoric." Obama seems kind of schizophrenic on free trade and I'm not sure if it's because he doesn't know anything about economics or it's just a result of him trying to tell people what he thinks they want to hear.
I think it's unfair to just suggest that he doesn't know anything about economics. Economics is an ever changing realm. It changes as humanity changes. We're coming to a crucial point in time in history where the world is going to have to make drastic changes. Whether his changes are right or wrong, it is very evident, that for the sake of humanity, things need to change in some ways.
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Made in the USA
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#189
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#189
(Original post by Rusty33)
I think the part about politics that tires me the most is the fact that most people spend more time talking about negatives of an opponent than positives about themselves or someone they support.
I think that's because so many people are just voting for who they think is the lesser of the evils. McCain wrapped up the nomination with only 35% of the vote in the primaries and Obama arguably lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton. When you aren't inspired by your candidate and didn't want him in the first place, you just think of all the reasons why the other candidate is worse and cast your vote accordingly.
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PeeWeeDan
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#190
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#190
(Original post by Rusty33)
I think it's unfair to just suggest that he doesn't know anything about economics. Economics is an ever changing realm. It changes as humanity changes. We're coming to a crucial point in time in history where the world is going to have to make drastic changes. Whether his changes are right or wrong, it is very evident, that for the sake of humanity, things need to change in some ways.

More empty rhetoric about change. Because the economy doesn't remain constant, we should vote for Obama, because both of them change! Who knows which direction they go! But change! Yay!
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History Lost in Physics
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#191
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#191
(Original post by Sharpshooter)
The only thing that bothers me is the amount of money Obama has, if he outspends McCain by almost twice as much he has the power to do all the smearing he wants, people will believe into his bull***** whether its right or not and there isn'ta thing McCain can do about it with limited resources.

Get in Romney and get some of his money.
It is a sad fact that it is not possibe to be a 'poor' politician in America (and be succesful). However if people take the 'bull*****' at face value then more fool them.
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Rusty33
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#192
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#192
(Original post by PeeWeeDan)
More empty rhetoric about change. Because the economy doesn't remain constant, we should vote for Obama, because both of them change! Who knows which direction they go! But change! Yay!

Don't be a dumb ****. I never said anything like that. I said things need to change. I said I don't know if his way is the right way. If McCain has a better way to change things, so be it.
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Rusty33
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#193
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#193
(Original post by Bismarck)
Polls of economists constantly show ~95% support for free trade. It was obvious that Obama is pandering for votes by opposing it. It's unclear if he'll continue to do so if elected.
"In a June 2005 PIPA poll a plurality of 46% viewed NAFTA as good for the US while 40% saw it as bad."

While I acknowledge the majority, it's a far cry from your percentage. I can't find any statistics for three years later, after the downward spiral of the economy.
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Rusty33
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#194
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#194
(Original post by Bismarck)
I was referring to economists, not your average citizen (who never went to college, let alone knows anything about economics).
Sorry for misinterpreting what you said. I've tried to find any sort of poll to substantiate your claim, and have come up empty.
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Made in the USA
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Bismarck)
I was referring to economists, not your average citizen (who never went to college, let alone knows anything about economics).
There is a non-partisan guy named Bob Brinker who hosts a show called Moneytalk. Every week he has a different economist on from different organizations. Some of them are economists from the US, some are from foreign countries and all of them have been critical of Obama's "economic plan" and say it is incredibly misguided.

Recently he said that Obama's has absolutely no idea how the economy works or jobs are created, and this is not coming from a political pundit.

Over on the other side, the most likely nominee based on the current polls, subject to change, is Barack Obama………Barack Obama stands firmly on raising the marginal tax rate on entrepreneurs to levels not seen since John F. Kennedy………..he’s talking about a potential marginal tax rate of about 60 to 63%........Now I think with a marginal rate of 60 to 63%, I think that a lot of entrepreneurs will take a page out the old Johnny Paycheck Songbook, ‘Take This Job and Shove It, I Don’t Work Here Anymore.’ That line made the late, great Johnny Paycheck famous and it may make Barack Obama famous too, to a lot of entrepreneurs who may take up golf. Because the bottom line is if you are confiscating 60% or more of somebody’s compensation, in a lot of cases, they’re just going to find something else to do with their time.”
And Obama has made it clear that he likes this donut-hole Social Security plan that he has come up with. Brinker described Obama’s “donut hole” plan: “This is the plan where, right now you have the $102,000 cap on the Social Security tax. This is the 6.2 plus 6.2, which is 12.4 to the entrepreneur and business owner…….everything above that not subject. Well, he has this donut hole idea, where you create maybe a $100,000 up to $200,000………. where you don’t do anything right now………where you don’t make any changes. Then he sinks the battleship when the donut hole is finished. Because above $200,000, the Junior Senator from Illinois, in his naïve notion of how jobs are created and economics works, is talking about lifting the cap on Social Security……..So we have the 39.6 and we have the 12.4, so all of a sudden we’re up to 52%. And the 2.9, the cap is already lifted on Medicare…….now we are up to 55%. How many entrepreneurs do you think live in places that charge high state taxes………now you are up to 62%, depending on the state you choose. A 62% marginal tax rate on entrepreneurs. This is the policy that Barack Obama is talking about.”
Can you imagine hitting someone over the head with a 62% tax earning as little as $250,000? In a city like NYC where the cost of living is what it is, that's really not a ton of money to begin with.
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History Lost in Physics
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#196
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#196
As little as $250 000 ?? Woa shocks - have a look at the news today, that's almost enough to hire someone to shoot Mugabe.
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Made in the USA
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#197
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#197
(Original post by History Lost in Physics)
As little as $250 000 ?? Woa shocks - have a look at the news today, that's almost enough to hire someone to shoot Mugabe.
After taxes there isn't going to be much left at all in some of the more expensive places to live in the US. High taxes like that might not dissuade people like Bill Gates, but a lot of entrepreneurs might just give up and throw in the towel if you are going to punish them that severely for trying to achieve more.
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Made in the USA
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#198
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#198
Found this in an email today and thought "what better place to post it than the Anti-Obama thread?"

Enjoy:

5o Lies and Counting:

1.) Selma Got Me Born - LIAR, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.

2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - LIAR, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - LIAR, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - LIAR, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades.

5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - LIAR, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5:00 AM according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) My Name is African Swahili - LIAR, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.

7.) I Never Practiced Islam - LIAR, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years,until your wife made you change, so you could run for office.

8.) My School In Indone si a Was Christian - LIAR, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).

9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - LIAR, not one teacher says you could speak the language.

10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - LIAR, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - LIAR, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - LIAR, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.

13.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - LIAR, Ebony has yet to f ind the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - LIAR, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) 'I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08' - LIAR, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

17.) Oops, I Misvoted - LIAR, only when caught by church groups and democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.

18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - LIAR, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it.

21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - LIAR, it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bil l - LIAR, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.) I Have Released My State Records - LIAR, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - LIAR, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - LIAR, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - LIAR, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - LIAR, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after the ir creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.

28.) No One Contacted Canada About NAFTA - LIAR, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - LIAR, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of I srael.

30.) I Am Not Acting As President Yet - LIAR, after the NAFTA Memo, a dead terrorist in the FARC, in Colombia, was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.

31.) I Didn't Run Ads In Florida - LIAR, you allowed national ads to run 8-12 times per day for two weeks - and you still lost.

32.) I Won Michigan - LIAR, no you didn't.

33.) I won Nevada - LIAR, no you did not.

34.) I Want All Votes To Count - LIAR, you said let the delegates decide.

35.) I Want Americans To Decide - LIAR, y ou p refer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

36.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - LIAR, you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

37.) My Campaign Was Extorted By A Friend - LIAR, that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has stopped saying this.

38.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - LIAR, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

39.) I Don't Take PAC Money - LIAR, you take loads of it.

40.) I don't Have Lobbyists - LIAR, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.

41.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - LIAR, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

42.) My Campaign Never Took Over MySpace - LIAR, Tom, who started MySpace issued a warning about this advertising to MySpace clients.

43.) I Inspire People With My Words - LI AR, you inspire people with other people's words.

44.) I Have Passed Bills In The U.S. Senate - LIAR, you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate - for Africa, which shows YOUR priorities.

45.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - LIAR, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time, unlike Kucinich, who seems to be out gutting you Obama. You also seem to be stepping back from your departure date - AGAIN.

46.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - LIAR, your plan leaves us all to pay the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it.

47.) I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail - LIAR, both companies you site as having sent you letters about this conflict have no record of any such letter ever being created or sent.

48.) I Am As Patriotic As Anyone - LIAR, you won't wear a flag pin and you don't put your hand over your heart during the National Anthem.

49.) My Wife Didn't Mean What She Said About Pride In Country - LIAR, your wife's words follow lock-step in the vein of Wright and Farrahkan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.

50.) Wal-Mart Is A Company I Wouldn't Support - LIAR, your wife has received nearly a quarter of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to Wal-Mart.
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History Lost in Physics
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#199
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#199
If all that IS true then it's very damning and makes me wonder whether there ever has been a politician in america (for about 40 years) who has genuinely wanted to do good - as I am no expert on any of it I shall pass judgement for now.
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Teofilo
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#200
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#200
I see the McCain campaign has placed an add in this thread in the form of a poll question.

Latest Newsweek poll has Obama ahead 51-36; Gallup poll has Obama winning 50-44.
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